ChristianMacy: ops for everyone!! WHEEEE! [6:31pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: Hey Christian [6:31pm] SeanAbrahams: Non-Profits have quite a large amount of restrictions and rules [6:31pm] ChristianMacy: howzit? [6:32pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: cold here [6:32pm] ChristianMacy: i thought they might - with great tax breaks come great responsibility [6:32pm] ChristianMacy: yeah, it's pretty frigid here, too - something like 89 today [6:33pm] ChristianMacy: i say frigid with a twinge of foreboding as it will likely be 5 million .3 degrees in about 2 weeks. [6:33pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: jeesh [6:34pm] SeanAbrahams: Have you lived in Arizona long? [6:34pm] SeanAbrahams: 89 would be so nice [6:34pm] ChristianMacy: since 03 [6:34pm] AugustineCastle5 joined the chat room. [6:34pm] ChristianMacy: i gotta admit - you get used to it [6:34pm] SeanAbrahams: I don't recall where you grew up [6:34pm] AugustineCastle5 is now known as JedBrensinger. [6:34pm] SeanAbrahams: Hola Jed [6:35pm] JedBrensinger: hi everyone [6:35pm] ChristianMacy: New York state - just north of the city. With a 2 year stint in Brazil and 1 year in Raleigh, NC [6:35pm] ChristianMacy: sup duderino? [6:35pm] JedBrensinger was promoted to operator by ChristianMacy. [6:36pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: hi Jed [6:36pm] SeanAbrahams: Did you check out Elysha's pics of the IC we went to? [6:36pm] JedBrensinger: yeah i did [6:36pm] ChristianMacy: checking [6:36pm] SeanAbrahams: It was really nice [6:37pm] ChristianMacy: no abandoning the cause and going to live with them, now [6:37pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: I dont think that is an option anyway [6:37pm] SeanAbrahams: Regarding projects I'm going to spend the next hour reading my non-profit book... [6:37pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: and overall not sharing the exact common vision [6:39pm] ChristianMacy: did they have a lot of rammed earth going on? [6:39pm] ChristianMacy: hmm - never mind. I just got to the residences [6:39pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: one building and bench was all I saw [6:40pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: the residences and other buildings were there when they bought it [6:40pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: but the new stuff they have built is mostly rammed earth [6:40pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: our tour guide gave a whole little chat about how great rammed earth is [6:40pm] ChristianMacy: lolz - i love the one pic you have at the end [6:40pm] ChristianMacy: "rocks" [6:40pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: yup. [6:40pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: great location [6:41pm] ChristianMacy: did they talk at all about how they've made the rammed earth? [6:41pm] ChristianMacy: if they had someone come in or whatever? [6:42pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: no, from what I gathered they do all the construction themselves [6:43pm] ChristianMacy: hmm .. [6:44pm] SeanAbrahams: They had Cob and Rammed Earth [6:44pm] SeanAbrahams: the only difference I could distinguish between the two, based on what the tour guide said, was that Cob used straw as a binder [6:44pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: they sculpted it, not bricked it [6:44pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: materials did not include manure... [6:44pm] SeanAbrahams: while their rammed earth shed used concrete as a binder [6:45pm] SeanAbrahams: a binder is what keeps the dirt together [6:46pm] SeanAbrahams: however, I've heard rammed earth using straw as a binder, so i'm not sure how the interchange of cob and rammed earth work [6:46pm] ChristianMacy: Not sure either - i don't know what it is chemically that's required [6:47pm] JedBrensinger: from what i've read straw shouldn't be used in rammed earth [6:48pm] JedBrensinger: because it's organic it degrades and then doesn't serve it's purpose [6:48pm] SeanAbrahams: Gotcha [6:49pm] JedBrensinger: i'm not real sure how cob works, being as that is primarily some type of straw or grass [6:50pm] JedBrensinger: something to look into further [6:52pm] AugustineCastle6 joined the chat room. [6:53pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: I will be back at 7:30 [6:54pm] ChristianMacy: ok [6:56pm] JedBrensinger: so did i miss anything before i got here [6:57pm] SeanAbrahams: Nope [6:59pm] JedBrensinger: so anything new this week [6:59pm] ChristianMacy: I'm putting Elysha's project outline into the project right now [7:05pm] AugustineCastle6 left the chat room. ("Give me the Square Deal Pants Store and the Hamburgteria instead!") [7:07pm] ChristianMacy: OK, i've set the project to go by hours, and assume 2 hours per week [7:08pm] mike_ray joined the chat room. [7:09pm] JedBrensinger: hey mike [7:09pm] mike_ray: Hi Jed [7:09pm] mike_ray: I have an idea for our irc forums [7:09pm] JedBrensinger: ok [7:10pm] mike_ray: basically we have the problem of too many questions too quickly [7:10pm] ChristianMacy: hey mike [7:11pm] mike_ray: hi christian [7:12pm] mike_ray: so I was thinking we should have the 'speaker' tell us when they are ready for the next question [7:12pm] mike_ray: to avoid having gthem getting two questions at a time [7:12pm] JedBrensinger: that sounds good [7:13pm] JedBrensinger: how do you like the speaker using a different color text [7:13pm] JedBrensinger: do you think it helps [7:13pm] SeanAbrahams: mike_ray: Yes, I tried solving that by private messaging you guys but it doesn't seem like the IRC Webclient supports private IRC messages... The idea was for people with questions to private message the moderator and the moderator would ask the questions in turn... However, I think IRC does have some facility where we can funnel all messages except from certain peoples to specific people... [7:13pm] mike_ray: it does help I think [7:13pm] mike_ray: the slash msg thing doesn't work? [7:14pm] mike_ray was promoted to operator by ChristianMacy. [7:14pm] mike_ray: ah yes [7:14pm] mike_ray: I got a privmsg blocked message [7:14pm] mike_ray: maybe it's nor unregisted users? [7:14pm] mike_ray: thanks Christian [7:15pm] mike_ray: Sean: I like the idea except about having the moderator ask the question [7:15pm] mike_ray: why not have pepl ask their own questions? [7:16pm] ChristianMacy: i really like the idea of the speaker saying something like 'ready for next' whenever done answering [7:16pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: what if people are typing at the same time? [7:16pm] ChristianMacy: we could also have a standing rule that we should try to shy away from followup questions [7:17pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: I feel like that is usually the problem really [7:17pm] ChristianMacy: yeah - a lot of discussion gets generated [7:18pm] mike_ray: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup [7:18pm] mike_ray: registering will allow privmsg [7:18pm] ChristianMacy: so maybe if we each make an effort, the "ready" thing will suffice and we don't have to go with using a moderator [7:18pm] mike_ray: a moderator would make sense if we got larger [7:20pm] ChristianMacy: definitely agree on the larger [7:20pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: but at that point this chat client might not make sense either [7:21pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: and registering sounds complicated [7:21pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: so if we get larger we don't really want everyone to have to register to ask a question [7:21pm] mike_ray: you type /msg nickserv register (password) [7:22pm] mike_ray: I have private messaging working [7:22pm] ChristianMacy: did you get my msg, btw? [7:23pm] mike_ray: did you get my reply? [7:23pm] ChristianMacy: nope [7:23pm] mike_ray: weird [7:24pm] mike_ray: it loosk like it worked on my side [7:24pm] ChristianMacy: i think i saw something about a filter [7:24pm] ChristianMacy: oh [7:24pm] ChristianMacy: wait [7:24pm] ChristianMacy: so THAT's what that Private> thing means [7:24pm] ChristianMacy: heh heh [7:24pm] mike_ray: my client is simpler so it shows up like *name* hey [7:25pm] ChristianMacy: mine says your name, too - i just didn't think to look where it was for a reply [7:25pm] mike_ray: Elysha: I think I can see your point [7:25pm] ChristianMacy: btw, new project file is uploaded with changes based on Elysha's input on her project [7:25pm] mike_ray: registering is a kind of barrier, and so is moderation [7:26pm] Topic changed to "JessicaB tonight on her experiences at Twin Oaks" by mike_ray. [7:27pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: where is the project file? [7:28pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: in the newsgroup? [7:28pm] ChristianMacy: it's on the files page of the newsgroup [7:28pm] ChristianMacy: you'll need Projity to open it, tho [7:30pm] AugustineCastle3 joined the chat room. [7:30pm] AugustineCastle3 is now known as highermonkey. [7:31pm] SeanAbrahams: Time to party! [7:31pm] highermonkey was promoted to operator by ChristianMacy. [7:31pm] ChristianMacy: w00t! [7:32pm] AugustineCastle4 joined the chat room. [7:32pm] AugustineCastle4 is now known as JessicaB. [7:32pm] JessicaB: Hello [7:33pm] highermonkey: I didn't like Virginia myself. Hot, sweaty, depressed, below the mason/dxon, but it is against this inauspicious background that our heros begin their adventure! [7:33pm] JessicaB: When did you go to Virginia? [7:33pm] highermonkey: To see DC when I was 13 [7:34pm] JessicaB: Is everyone else here? [7:34pm] JessicaB was promoted to operator by ChristianMacy. [7:34pm] SeanAbrahams: All right, so Jessica, since you're the honored guest, you get to try out our new speaker format [7:35pm] ChristianMacy: whee hee hee - ops for all! [7:35pm] JessicaB: What's the new format? [7:35pm] SeanAbrahams: Mike Ray proposed that questions are asked only when the speaker prompts for them with "next question" or something similar [7:35pm] SeanAbrahams: To prevent overlapping questions [7:36pm] JessicaB: Ok, Next! [7:36pm] highermonkey: Good idea, we kinda swamped the last dude from TO [7:36pm] ChristianMacy: lolz [7:37pm] JessicaB: Does anyone have a question? [7:37pm] highermonkey: What did they do for fun? [7:37pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: So do you want to start by telling us when you went? [7:37pm] ChristianMacy: heh heh - we've hit a snag [7:38pm] JessicaB: For fun I found the art studio, and for sanity I cleaned the guest house. Also, I really liked one of the other visitors and we went mulberry picking alot. [7:38pm] JessicaB: I went almost two years ago in July. [7:38pm] JessicaB: Next [7:38pm] ChristianMacy: ok, wait a sec [7:38pm] ChristianMacy: i have an idea [7:39pm] ChristianMacy: does everyone have the same order in the list on the right? [7:39pm] ChristianMacy: me, elysha, mike, jed, jessica, mike, sean? [7:39pm] JessicaB: yes [7:39pm] JedBrensinger: yeah [7:39pm] SeanAbrahams: Yes [7:39pm] ChristianMacy: let's go in order, then [7:39pm] ChristianMacy: one question per person per round [7:39pm] JessicaB: ok Christian, shoot [7:40pm] ChristianMacy: oh i got nothin yet [7:40pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: what made you want to live there and what made you not want to live there? [7:40pm] JessicaB: I can tell you why I didn't want to live there. Not sure I ever really wanted to live there. [7:40pm] JessicaB: I didn't feel that I would have a fulfilling career there. [7:41pm] JessicaB: Also, most of the people are partiers to the extreme and I didn't feel like I would fit in. [7:41pm] JessicaB: I didn't feel like I would have much privacy or freedom. [7:42pm] JessicaB: Also, I would have to be very poor, and I have spent ten years saving so that that would not happen to me. [7:43pm] JessicaB: But on a general level, I do want to live in a place where the people are not very judgemental and who feel we need to work with the land like the people at Twin Oaks do. [7:43pm] JessicaB: Mike M? [7:43pm] highermonkey: Do you think the last TO speaker was correct when he said there was "no universally unpopular work" there? [7:44pm] JessicaB: I think when he clarified that cleaning was universally unpopular, that was correct. [7:44pm] JessicaB: Twin Oaks is a very dirty place except for a few neat people's rooms. [7:44pm] JessicaB: Jed? [7:45pm] JedBrensinger: do you think the small size compared to walden two was a problem, as far as meeting people with common interests [7:46pm] JessicaB: It would have been for me, but I think they are very open about their interests and opinions in the visiting period, and so people who do not share the interests or opinions naturally weed themselves out. [7:47pm] JessicaB: In a larger community, there may be more room for more diverse opinions/interests. [7:47pm] JessicaB: Mike? [7:47pm] mike_ray: in the novel walden two members are encouraged to marry. Were there married people at TO? [7:48pm] JessicaB: Yes, there were a few couples. [7:48pm] JessicaB: One was a regular nuclear family. [7:49pm] JessicaB: But there are lots of accepted forms of love there. In fact all forms are accepted. [7:49pm] JessicaB: There's divorce too. [7:49pm] JessicaB: Sean? [7:49pm] SeanAbrahams: Did you get a sense of whether the planner manager system worked well or not? Paxus voiced his dislike of the system and said he favored consensus. [7:50pm] JessicaB: I don't feel that everyone agrees with him. [7:50pm] JessicaB: I do think that it works well enough. [7:50pm] JessicaB: I think everyone has a different idea of what they want the government to look like and since no one agrees, it stays like it is. [7:51pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: nice point [7:51pm] JessicaB: Am I answering everyone's questions thoroughly enough? [7:51pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: I think you are doing a great job [7:51pm] SeanAbrahams: Yes [7:51pm] highermonkey: I think so too [7:51pm] JessicaB: Thanks. Ok, Christian? [7:51pm] ChristianMacy: Paxus talked about people leaving, which is really an organic part of any community. While you were there did you get the feeling like they were actively recruiting/spreading the word? or was it mostly just "here we are, living on our island" [7:52pm] JessicaB: No, they very actively recruit. [7:53pm] JessicaB: They know they are the face of IC's and they know that they lose members to other communities once they educate them about the options. [7:53pm] JessicaB: They also have Saturday visitor groups and are very interested in having new recruits since turnover is so high. [7:54pm] JessicaB: Elysha? [7:54pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: So, it sounds to me like they have dropped the culture of experimentation. Do you see that as something that was inevitable? Would it be working better to have kept it?? Could they have kept it? [7:54pm] JessicaB: I can only answer that from my understanding of their history, not my experience there. [7:55pm] JessicaB: I think they could have kept up experimentation if they had been able to recruit more scientifically minded people early on. [7:55pm] JessicaB: But the end of experimentation came with the end of most other Walden Two ideas. [7:56pm] JessicaB: Some there feel that they experiment, but it is to a very small degree. [7:56pm] JessicaB: I hope it is not inevitable. [7:57pm] JessicaB: Mike M? [7:57pm] highermonkey: What's eduaction at TO like? Do any of the kids do public school, or is it all homeschool til college? [7:57pm] JessicaB: They brag about the education level of the adults. [7:58pm] JessicaB: I can't remember, but I think it is a full year more of college than the rest of the country? [7:58pm] JessicaB: The kids, like Paxus said, get to choose. Most of the younger ones get home schooled and most of the teenagers go to public school. [7:59pm] JessicaB: Not really sure the homeschooling is any better or worse. [8:00pm] JessicaB: I worked with a woman who taught kids how to read and was teaching one of the young ones while I was there. One of that child's caretakers felt that it was ineffective and so was teaching him on the side. [8:00pm] JessicaB: So, I guess there are lots of options for potential teachers... [8:00pm] JessicaB: Jed? [8:00pm] JedBrensinger: do you think TO is keeping up with technology well enough, or did they go back to the farm, as Frazier warns the tendency would be to do [8:01pm] JedBrensinger: are some things done simply rather than efficiently? [8:01pm] JessicaB: They have a lot of their labor going into their farm, but they don't seem to be anti-technology. They are anti- using oil. [8:02pm] JessicaB: They have a very efficient kitchen. What else might you be asking about? [8:03pm] JedBrensinger: do they use tractors for farming, or would they rather use horses [8:04pm] JessicaB: Their garden does not really require a tractor, but they do use machines when needed - like for harvesting the potato row. [8:04pm] JessicaB: Mike R? [8:04pm] mike_ray: Can you play violent video games there? Listen to offensive music? What are the restrictions on personal freedom you mentioned? [8:05pm] JessicaB: Different houses can create different rules. [8:05pm] JessicaB: I think one house does not let you have a TV or laptop. [8:05pm] JessicaB: They discourage any violent things. [8:05pm] JessicaB: They have two or three movie nights a week and say they select anything that is not violent. [8:06pm] JessicaB: I don't think anyone plays video games, but I don't recall hearing a restriction. Just a strong bias against. [8:07pm] JessicaB: Not too sure about the offensive music either, but my guess is that you would be asked to play it very quietly in your room. [8:07pm] JessicaB: There are other areas of personal freedom that would be affected simply by resources. [8:08pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: and those were the ones you were referring to? [8:08pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: sorry to not wait my turn, that just begged a follow up [8:08pm] JessicaB: You can't have cable tv because they don't purchase it. [8:08pm] JessicaB: that's ok [8:08pm] mike_ray: no cable tv? I'm not going. [8:09pm] JessicaB: I think ability to do any art, music or other creative endeavor that needs materials, instruments, or whatever, would be difficult, but certainly not impossible. [8:09pm] ChristianMacy: no worries mike, the intertron has everything [8:09pm] JessicaB: I think I would not enjoy the limit on traveling. [8:10pm] JessicaB: They give you plenty of time off, but there is no money and you can't have your own saved, so you can't go anywhere unless you work extra off the farm. [8:10pm] JessicaB: Also, as I mentioned, I would have very limited work options. [8:11pm] JessicaB: And I would have to share a bathroom with people who may not want to prevent very gross conditions. [8:12pm] JessicaB: I think they have a very settled culture there and if you feel you wouldn't be happy as a visitor, you should go with that gut feeling, because they are not likely to change much. [8:13pm] JessicaB: I suspect Walden Two may be the same, so we need to make it the way we want now and insist on it staying a way we will be happy with. [8:13pm] JessicaB: Did you have a separate question Elysha? [8:14pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: Isn't Christian next? [8:14pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: or Sean? [8:14pm] JessicaB: I lost track. [8:14pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: Sean is next [8:14pm] JessicaB: Sean? [8:14pm] SeanAbrahams: Did they seem well organized? [8:14pm] JessicaB: To some degree. [8:15pm] JessicaB: They have several businesses that they are running fairly well. [8:15pm] JessicaB: They have been able to consistently build. [8:15pm] JessicaB: They have a highly structured visitor program. [8:16pm] SeanAbrahams: What did they not seem well organized with? [8:16pm] JessicaB: I think the only thing that keeps them from being any more organized is that they probably don't agree on the rest. [8:17pm] JessicaB: They had a lawyer member a few years before I came who helped them put together their codes. I forgot what they called them, but they weren't called laws or rules. [8:17pm] JessicaB: Christian? [8:18pm] ChristianMacy: OK, so they've been around for a while now, and you mentioned that they are actively spreading the word/recruiting. What do you think is the biggest "turn-off" to living there, or what reason do you think there is that they are still such a relatively small community after a few decades? [8:19pm] JessicaB: Well, I don't think they want to be much bigger than they are. They need to keep recruiting because of high turn over. [8:19pm] JessicaB: I think they have high turnover for a few reasons. [8:19pm] JessicaB: One is that the work options are limited and almost all manual labor. [8:20pm] JessicaB: One is that they tend to attract young adults who are just escaping from parents rule and want freedom, but don't really want TO life once they live there a few months. [8:21pm] JessicaB: One is that they are very poor, so it is hard to go whereever you want whenever you want and do whatever you want. [8:22pm] JessicaB: Also, the food is not great. It is mostly from the garden, but it is not washed well, then it is overcooked and bland. [8:23pm] JessicaB: Those are the most compelling reasons I can think of right now. [8:23pm] JessicaB: Elysha? [8:23pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: were they able to grow enough food to be self-sustaining? Also, is it an aesthetically attractive place? [8:23pm] JessicaB: They did grow a lot of food, but they bought small amounts from the local town. [8:24pm] JessicaB: I was there during austerity, so their budget was small, but ordinarily they would be supplementing their homegrown veggies, eggs, and meat with local honey, fruit, pasta and other treats like coffee. [8:25pm] JessicaB: The land is beautiful! The buildings look alright on the outside, but the insides are not very appealing aesthetically. [8:26pm] JessicaB: Mike M? [8:26pm] highermonkey: You said that you couldn't have your money saved, which seems to contradict Paxus' distinction between profit sharing and asset sharing. So if you join with money in the bank, what happens? [8:27pm] JessicaB: You need to put it in your Mom's name and pretend that you don't have it, or lend it or give it to TO. Otherwise, it throws off their poverty status. [8:28pm] JessicaB: You can make separate money once you are there though, and many of the parents do to get extras for their kids. [8:28pm] JessicaB: Jed? [8:28pm] highermonkey: so the income not asset sharing thing was hogwash, if you'll pardon the language [8:28pm] JessicaB: I don't remember what he said. What was it? [8:29pm] highermonkey: nevermind [8:29pm] JessicaB: ok. [8:29pm] JessicaB: Jed? [8:29pm] JedBrensinger: does TO have problems with cliques, or is it a fairly cohesive group? [8:30pm] JessicaB: No, there are definitly groups and those groups don't get along well. [8:30pm] JessicaB: There is a natural division between the older and younger members (meaning age as well as longevity) [8:35pm] highermonkey left the chat room. ("Give me the Square Deal Pants Store and the Hamburgteria instead!") [8:35pm] AugustineCastle9 joined the chat room. [8:36pm] AugustineCastle9 left the chat room. (Client Quit) [8:36pm] AugustineCastle4 joined the chat room. [8:36pm] AugustineCastle4 is now known as highermonkey. [8:36pm] SeanAbrahams: Is this thing on? [8:36pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: I got that [8:37pm] highermonkey: Me too [8:37pm] JedBrensinger: i got that [8:37pm] SeanAbrahams: Maybe Jessica lost her connection [8:37pm] SeanAbrahams: Precisely at 8:30 [8:37pm] JedBrensinger: yeah, wondering [8:37pm] SeanAbrahams: That was a great session though [8:38pm] AugustineCastle0 joined the chat room. [8:38pm] highermonkey: Sounds like a lousy place, but perhaps we can learn from them [8:38pm] SeanAbrahams: I've been thinking that perhaps Google would be a good candidate for creating an Intentional Community [8:38pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: Yeah, well it sounds like they aren't walden at all [8:38pm] AugustineCastle0: Sorry guys, I'm back [8:38pm] SeanAbrahams: Or even just a successful business [8:38pm] SeanAbrahams: Welcome back [8:38pm] AugustineCastle0: can someone kick me off so I can get my name back? [8:39pm] You kicked JessicaB from the chat room. (SeanAbrahams) [8:40pm] AugustineCastle0: oh well, I can't change my name. [8:40pm] AugustineCastle0 is now known as JessicaB1. [8:41pm] JessicaB1: Ok, what were we talking about? [8:41pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: cliques [8:41pm] JessicaB1: oh, yeah, there are lots of groups that disagree about just about everything. [8:42pm] JessicaB1: The only thing they have in common is that they all want to live there. [8:42pm] JessicaB1: I lost my history, so I don't know who is next. [8:42pm] JedBrensinger: mike ray [8:43pm] JessicaB1: Mike R? [8:44pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: time is also up... [8:44pm] MIkeRay joined the chat room. [8:44pm] MIkeRay: laggin [8:44pm] JessicaB1: I can stick around till about 9pm. [8:45pm] JessicaB1: Its your turn Mike R. [8:45pm] MIkeRay: WHen Skinner visited TO in 1972 he noticed a lack of entertainment options [8:45pm] MIkeRay: have they gotten any better? Do they have art, music, theater, games, sports, literature and dance? [8:46pm] JessicaB1: They have some art materials, but not much displayed. [8:46pm] JessicaB1: They have a music room, but not many concerts. [8:47pm] JessicaB1: They have puppet shows and other performances (two while I was there) [8:47pm] JessicaB1: I didn't see any games or sports. [8:47pm] JessicaB1: Oh, actually, they did have a few games out at one of the parties. [8:47pm] JessicaB1: They have lots of books to read. Thousands! [8:48pm] mike_ray left the chat room. (Remote closed the connection) [8:48pm] • MIkeRay is still here [8:48pm] JessicaB1: You can dance at parties, or whenever you feel like it. [8:49pm] JessicaB1: I can't really say if its better since I wasn't there in 1972. I'm guessing it is, but it could be even better. [8:50pm] JessicaB1: The order is different now. Anyone have any burning questions? [8:50pm] MIkeRay: if you could change one thing about TO what would it be? [8:51pm] JessicaB1: Their insistence on maintaining their poverty status. I understand the benefits, but it is not really an appealling lifestyle. [8:51pm] MIkeRay: this is the 501(d) ? They are a religious monastary [8:52pm] JessicaB1: I don't remember their class. [8:52pm] highermonkey: You mentioned the end of most W2 ideas. Was this abrupt or gradual? Were these aspects actively phased out, or did people just kinda lose interest? [8:52pm] JessicaB1: I think it was abrupt based on the stories I heard and the book I read. [8:53pm] MIkeRay: read the Kinkade books [8:53pm] JessicaB1: Well, relatively abrupt. [8:53pm] JessicaB1: yes. [8:53pm] MIkeRay: Kinkade's Twin Oaks: A Walden Two Experiment and her Is it Utopia yet? (followup) [8:53pm] JessicaB1: I read most of the first book while I was there. [8:54pm] MIkeRay: the new format seems to have worked out ok. DId you like it JessicaB1? [8:55pm] JessicaB1: It was alright. It was hard to know if I was answering thoroughly at first, but people seemed to ask follow-up questions if I hadn't, so yeah, I liked it. [8:56pm] JessicaB1: How was it from your end. Did everyone get to ask the questions they wanted? [8:56pm] SeanAbrahams: I thought it was excellent [8:56pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: I thought it was great [8:56pm] JessicaB1: It seems that this way every one gets heard, but we probably won't spend much time on any one topic. [8:56pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: much better than before [8:56pm] MIkeRay: I liked the rotation system. [8:56pm] ChristianMacy: definitely agree [8:56pm] JedBrensinger: yeah, worked well [8:57pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: you get a chance to prepare for your question [8:57pm] highermonkey: Yea, it also forced us to make our questions concise and to give them some thought rather than just blurting them out as fast as we could type [8:57pm] JessicaB1: Yes, I felt behind having to read when you had your questions pop up so fast! [8:57pm] MIkeRay: thanks for making time for us JessicaB1! [8:58pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: for real! really informative answers [8:58pm] JessicaB1: Thanks! I enjoyed it! [8:58pm] JessicaB1: Have a great week everyone! [8:58pm] MIkeRay: good night [8:58pm] JessicaB1 left the chat room. ("Give me the Square Deal Pants Store and the Hamburgteria instead!") [8:58pm] ChristianMacy: this was a great session folks! i'm gonna head out, but thanks especially to JB for the sharing! [8:58pm] highermonkey left the chat room. ("Give me the Square Deal Pants Store and the Hamburgteria instead!") [8:59pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo: night [8:59pm] ChristianMacy left the chat room. ("Give me the Square Deal Pants Store and the Hamburgteria instead!") [8:59pm] ElyshaRom-Povolo left the chat room. [8:59pm] MIkeRay: nighty night [8:59pm] MIkeRay: Sean [8:59pm] SeanAbrahams: Hello [8:59pm] MIkeRay: you got logs? I am needing the last two also... [8:59pm] SeanAbrahams: I sent you last weeks [8:59pm] MIkeRay: you did? [9:00pm] SeanAbrahams: an hour ago or so [9:00pm] • MIkeRay checks mail [9:00pm] MIkeRay: ok [9:00pm] MIkeRay is now known as MikeRay. [9:00pm] SeanAbrahams: I'll send you this one soon [9:00pm] JedBrensinger: I'll talk to you guys next week [9:00pm] MikeRay: later Jed [9:00pm] MikeRay: thanks for making it [9:00pm] MikeRay: Sean: what about Paxus? [9:01pm] JedBrensinger left the chat room. ("Give me the Square Deal Pants Store and the Hamburgteria instead!") [9:01pm] SeanAbrahams: That's the one I sent you [9:01pm] MikeRay: ah ok, then David Schrom? [9:02pm] MikeRay left the chat room. (Remote closed the connection) [9:02pm] SeanAbrahams: Hmm [9:03pm] mike_ray joined the chat room. [9:03pm] SeanAbrahams: I thought I sent you Paxus before [9:04pm] SeanAbrahams: The one I just sent you should be David [9:04pm] mike_ray: I don't recall seeing it [9:05pm] mike_ray: can you resend it? [9:06pm] SeanAbrahams: Will do [9:07pm] mike_ray: I have 4-14 4-21 and now 4-28 so maybe that's them [9:07pm] SeanAbrahams: Should be [9:08pm] mike_ray: ok I have paxus [9:09pm] mike_ray: I have schrom! [9:09pm] mike_ray: my bad [9:09pm] mike_ray: thanks tho' [9:10pm] SeanAbrahams: np of course [9:10pm] • mike_ray yawns [9:10pm] mike_ray: sleepy timez [9:10pm] SeanAbrahams: when's your last day? [9:10pm] mike_ray: of school? [9:10pm] SeanAbrahams: yeah [9:10pm] mike_ray: I have classes going into the 20s, but most will be done in the teens. But I still have thesis, practicum and an incomplete to work out so it's not my 'last day' really [9:11pm] SeanAbrahams: gotcha [9:11pm] mike_ray: hows things for you there? making headway on your projects? [9:11pm] SeanAbrahams: I'm getting more organized which has been quite reinforcing [9:12pm] mike_ray: organization is always good [9:12pm] mike_ray: did you get my email about alternating treatments? [9:12pm] SeanAbrahams: I did [9:12pm] SeanAbrahams: I haven't looked into them yet [9:12pm] SeanAbrahams: I will add it to my schedule right now though as it will probably be beneficial [9:13pm] SeanAbrahams: Little by little looking to increase my self-control [9:15pm] mike_ray: well tis a good design for a moving baseline [9:15pm] mike_ray: most of the other designs need a stable baseline [9:15pm] mike_ray: alternating treatments would be a good way to experiment with your sleep [9:15pm] mike_ray: each treatment acts like a baseline for the other treatment or something like that (heh) [9:16pm] SeanAbrahams: I have put it on my calendar! [9:16pm] mike_ray: you'd also need to come up with two treatments to change your behavior [9:16pm] SeanAbrahams: I'm experimenting with using a calendar [9:16pm] SeanAbrahams: So far I like it [9:17pm] mike_ray: calendars are cool [9:17pm] mike_ray: I should be catching some zzzs soon. catch ya later. [9:18pm] SeanAbrahams: Yeah, sorry, I'm distracted [9:18pm] mike_ray: nighty night [9:18pm] SeanAbrahams: Cheers [9:18pm] mike_ray: sleep tight [9:18pm] mike_ray: don't let the bed bugs bite [9:18pm] mike_ray: sweet dreams [9:18pm] SeanAbrahams: I hope! [9:18pm] mike_ray left the chat room. ("outta here!")