[7:14pm] JedBrensinger joined the chat room. [7:15pm] seanabrahams: Wow, we joined the same time [7:15pm] You are now known as SeanAbrahams. [7:15pm] JedBrensinger: amazing [7:15pm] SeanAbrahams: I like your capitalizing Jed, [7:15pm] SeanAbrahams: stealing it [7:16pm] JedBrensinger: how's it going [7:20pm] AugustineCastle joined the chat room. [7:20pm] AugustineCastle is now known as DaMaceMan. [7:20pm] SeanAbrahams: Feeling tired today, which is no good since I have so much to do [7:21pm] JedBrensinger: oh yeah [7:21pm] DaMaceMan: hi there - hope i'm not barging in. I found you guys on the interwebs and hoped maybe i could listen in on one of your meetings. Maybe contribute a little [7:21pm] JedBrensinger: nice to have you [7:22pm] DaMaceMan: Thanks! [7:23pm] JedBrensinger was promoted to operator by mike_ray. [7:23pm] JedBrensinger: so you just found us while looking around? [7:23pm] You were promoted to operator by mike_ray. [7:23pm] SeanAbrahams: Excellent DaMaceMan, thanks for coming [7:23pm] DaMaceMan: well i happened upon Walden-Two and got interested in the idea [7:24pm] DaMaceMan: i started hunting around and found you guys [7:24pm] DaMaceMan: Thanks, Sean! [7:24pm] mike_ray: DaMaceMan: excellent [7:24pm] mike_ray: DaMaceMan: have you seen our newsgroup walden-two-talk? [7:25pm] DaMaceMan: I saw the links via your site, i think, but i honestly checked it out yet [7:25pm] DaMaceMan: (btw, there was supposed to be a haven't in there ) [7:25pm] mike_ray: DaMaceMan: not a problem, enjoy at your leisure [7:26pm] DaMaceMan: oh that's right - i actually joined the group [7:26pm] SeanAbrahams: DaMaceMan: are you logged in via the web site IRC client or some other one? [7:26pm] DaMaceMan: that's how i got the updates about the meeting [7:26pm] DaMaceMan: web [7:26pm] DaMaceMan: i'm not a big irc fan [7:26pm] DaMaceMan: not a big chat fan ... actually [7:26pm] SeanAbrahams: Haha, well thanks for putting up with it for this [7:26pm] DaMaceMan: (burned out on AOL back in the day ... haven't been the same since that intervention) [7:27pm] DaMaceMan: oh, np - i don't hate it or anything, just don't have a reason to use it [7:27pm] DaMaceMan: in the groups i'm XeroTolerance [7:27pm] DaMaceMan: i haven't posted anything, but jic you're in the roster [7:27pm] mike_ray: ah yes [7:28pm] DaMaceMan: btw, my real name is Christian [7:28pm] mike_ray: we were going to send you a welcoming committee email, Christian [7:28pm] DaMaceMan: handle or meatspace, it's up to y'all [7:28pm] DaMaceMan: great! thanks! [7:28pm] SeanAbrahams: Where are you located? [7:28pm] DaMaceMan: Tempe, AZ [7:28pm] SeanAbrahams: I'm in Southern California right now but live in San Francisco [7:29pm] DaMaceMan: where in SoCal? [7:29pm] SeanAbrahams: The city of Orange in Orange Country [7:29pm] SeanAbrahams: Visiting family [7:30pm] SeanAbrahams: All right, it's 7:30 so I'm going to let Jed moderate [7:31pm] JedBrensinger: ok [7:31pm] JedBrensinger: do you know of anyone else who will be coming? [7:31pm] JedBrensinger: Elysha, Jessica, Mike M.? [7:31pm] SeanAbrahams: Giving Elysha a call [7:32pm] mike_ray: Mike is busy doing science work in the lab [7:32pm] mike_ray: I think Jessica is away on 3 day weekend trip or something [7:33pm] SeanAbrahams: No answer from Elysha [7:33pm] mike_ray: Mike M. is probably the only practicing scientist among us I think [7:33pm] JedBrensinger: Mike:what does he do? [7:34pm] mike_ray: He works in a chemistry lab [7:34pm] SeanAbrahams: Before I start my talk I just want to ask Christian to talk more about his Walden Two background, if you don't mind Christian [7:35pm] DaMaceMan: sure [7:35pm] DaMaceMan: i won't digress too much - though that seems to be something i rarely avoid [7:35pm] SeanAbrahams: For me I want to know how people come across Walden Two and their thoughts on it so we can focus our outreach efforts accordingly [7:35pm] DaMaceMan: if you want me to get to the point, just tell me [7:36pm] DaMaceMan: well actually, i was very much into the idea of trying to find a way to live in a community [7:36pm] DaMaceMan: mostly because i think there's something wrong with the world [7:36pm] DaMaceMan: it's actually an idea i've been *joking* about for about 2 years [7:36pm] SeanAbrahams: Cool [7:37pm] DaMaceMan: neways, i got married, and on our honeymoon 3 weeks ago i found an old copy of Walden-Two on the shelves of their makeshift library [7:37pm] SeanAbrahams: Wow, congrats [7:37pm] DaMaceMan: i had no idea what it was about, (thank you, btw) but i knew i'd heard about it. Since i'm just that kinda guy i decided to at least check it out [7:38pm] DaMaceMan: long story short, it answered all the "how-to" questions i hadn't been able to figure out, and though there are still some thing i think need more consideration [7:38pm] DaMaceMan: i think most of it still applies [7:38pm] DaMaceMan: so i started looking for more answers, and maybe more people out there who thought the same [7:38pm] DaMaceMan: and here i am [7:38pm] SeanAbrahams: Good timing [7:39pm] JedBrensinger: we're glad you found us [7:39pm] SeanAbrahams: It's been a year since Mike and I started seriously thinking about Walden Two [7:39pm] DaMaceMan: no timing, no coincidences, just meant to be [7:39pm] DaMaceMan: if you don't mind my asking, when did it start? [7:39pm] mike_ray: my experience is very similar to yours Christian, a random bookshelf copy of beyond freedom and dignity in my case tho' [7:39pm] DaMaceMan: talking about the book? or did you find the book after? [7:40pm] SeanAbrahams: Since then we've only been able to devote our part times efforts, the results of which I have been extremely happy with [7:40pm] SeanAbrahams: My experience was just like yours from the 'thinking about community for a few years' and then finding Walden Two and thinking it a good model [7:41pm] SeanAbrahams: Elysha called me back, she can't make it [7:41pm] DaMaceMan: did you find yourself wishing there was a Frazier out there? [7:41pm] SeanAbrahams: Hahaha, we have our Frazier [7:41pm] • SeanAbrahams looks at Mike Ray [7:42pm] mike_ray: I am no frazier ! [7:42pm] DaMaceMan: ok ok, you can be Niles. [7:42pm] SeanAbrahams: LOL, I knew you'd like that [7:43pm] DaMaceMan: well i'm glad to have found you all, in any case. It's good to meet people i won't have to convince. [7:43pm] SeanAbrahams: Well said [7:43pm] mike_ray: yes, it's a hard gospel to sell [7:43pm] DaMaceMan: i think it's just hard to get people willing to talk about it enough to let you answer their questions [7:43pm] SeanAbrahams: Surprisingly so [7:44pm] DaMaceMan: it's unfortunate that there were no chapters leading up to the establishment of Walden-Two [7:44pm] DaMaceMan: but i guess that just leaves us something to write for ourselves! [7:45pm] mike_ray: DaMaceMan: a keen insight. [7:45pm] mike_ray: however, there are hints [7:45pm] DaMaceMan: true, [7:45pm] DaMaceMan: but a 1,000 people would be hard to convince [7:45pm] DaMaceMan: sure there were the initial "founding planners" [7:46pm] DaMaceMan: but *whew*! [7:46pm] mike_ray: it started smaller than that, maybe 100-200 people, maybe 2-3 planners [7:46pm] SeanAbrahams: I've got a question for all of us. If we lived in Walden Two right now what do you envision you would be doing? [7:46pm] mike_ray: the land was probably pre-acquired by frazier [7:46pm] DaMaceMan: or at least with the help of his fellow planners [7:46pm] mike_ray: yes [7:46pm] DaMaceMan: Sean: My guess? Having this meeting. [7:46pm] SeanAbrahams: haha [7:46pm] mike_ray: I guess I would be doing some self-experimentation? [7:47pm] DaMaceMan: Still need to spread the gospel [7:47pm] mike_ray: although I guess it would be on Sunday, not Monday [7:47pm] SeanAbrahams: I think I would be doing some sort of research and learning to play music [7:47pm] JedBrensinger: I'm with Sean on that [7:47pm] DaMaceMan: i have no clue. My life would be so different, it would be hard to imagine. [7:48pm] DaMaceMan: I wouldn't be just back from 8 hours of work - so i probably wouldn't feel so tired [7:48pm] SeanAbrahams: Agreed [7:48pm] DaMaceMan: who really knows? It's hard to imagine enlightenment when you've never experienced it. [7:48pm] SeanAbrahams: Thanks for the answers [7:48pm] SeanAbrahams: And unless someone objects, I'm going to take Mike Ray's answer and start my talk? [7:48pm] DaMaceMan: or, to put it as my teacher would: to explain god is to describe the undescribable - in that very act, you cease to describe god. [7:49pm] DaMaceMan: sounds good! [7:49pm] SeanAbrahams: Mike, Jed? [7:49pm] mike_ray: I think walden two is a kind of secular heaven [7:49pm] mike_ray: go fer it! are you logging? [7:49pm] JedBrensinger: sounds good [7:50pm] SeanAbrahams: I should be, let me double check [7:50pm] SeanAbrahams: Yes [7:51pm] JedBrensinger: let the talk commence [7:51pm] SeanAbrahams: All right, so self-experimentation [7:52pm] SeanAbrahams: Supposedly started in the 1500s by Italian Santorio Santorio [7:52pm] SeanAbrahams: is apparently all about experimenting on yourself [7:52pm] SeanAbrahams: btw, feel free to talk [7:53pm] SeanAbrahams: The reason I wanted to talk about self-experimentation was because I think it's an important component of Walden Two [7:53pm] mike_ray: ok [7:53pm] mike_ray: was his version of self-experimentation like what we might do? [7:54pm] AugustineCastle joined the chat room. [7:54pm] SeanAbrahams: Without knowing what exactly you mean, I would say yes in that he rigorously recorded data on himself to reach a discovery [7:54pm] DaMaceMan left the chat room. ("Give me the Hamburgteria instead!") [7:55pm] mike_ray: ok [7:55pm] AugustineCastle is now known as DaMaceMan. [7:56pm] SeanAbrahams: Basically he's known for weighing his food/drink intake and his excrement to determine how much of what he consumed came out through our normal channels [7:56pm] SeanAbrahams: And persperation [7:57pm] SeanAbrahams: Anyhow, back to Walden Two [7:57pm] SeanAbrahams: (I'm going to deviate from the order of my outline) [7:57pm] SeanAbrahams: In the outline I put: [7:57pm] SeanAbrahams: "Walden Two is built on a Science of Human Behavior. And as long as we're not living in Walden Two, self-experimentation is perhaps the surest way to develop such a science." [7:57pm] DaMaceMan: for the record, i vote no on the poop scale behind the mess hall. [7:58pm] SeanAbrahams: DaMaceMan: no problem, the scale will be incorporated into the toilets [7:58pm] mike_ray: it will probably be hidden in the outhouses [7:58pm] SeanAbrahams: Hahaha [7:58pm] DaMaceMan: man - that job is definitely worth 4 credit hours. [7:59pm] JedBrensinger: i'd say so [7:59pm] DaMaceMan: Sean: as to the idea you've posited [8:00pm] DaMaceMan: i tend to think that there would be no way to realistically test and experiment with most of the necessary conditions to be able to predict desired behavior/outcome [8:00pm] DaMaceMan: using only self-experimentation [8:01pm] DaMaceMan: much of the walden-two experiment is based on group mentality/ethics/behavior [8:01pm] SeanAbrahams: Definitely [8:02pm] SeanAbrahams: I think self-experimentation's usefulness is not only in the results, but in the behavior of collecting data on ourselves and publishing it... perhaps this should only apply to those who plan to do research in a Walden Two [8:03pm] SeanAbrahams: Will every discovery through self-experimentation generalize to other individuals? Will it generalize to groups? [8:03pm] SeanAbrahams: If not, how much of it will? [8:03pm] SeanAbrahams: I don't know [8:03pm] SeanAbrahams: Perhaps only a very small number [8:04pm] JedBrensinger left the chat room. (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) [8:04pm] mike_ray: connection problems [8:04pm] AugustineCastle joined the chat room. [8:04pm] AugustineCastle is now known as JedBrensinger. [8:04pm] DaMaceMan: i would venture to say that the only answers found through self-experimentation which could apply to anyone but that selfsame individual are those yielded through experiments dealing with things about people which are universal, or close to [8:05pm] SeanAbrahams: However, Walden Two as conceived, seems to rely much on it's members ability to adhere to the code of conduct [8:05pm] SeanAbrahams: s/it's/its/ [8:05pm] DaMaceMan: right, but it relies on their behavior as humans [8:06pm] DaMaceMan: not as one person [8:06pm] DaMaceMan: we are our own example in this case [8:06pm] mike_ray: I seem to recall that Seth (?) started self-experimentation as a way to learn how to do experiments [8:06pm] SeanAbrahams: And I think self-experimentation is a useful tool in helping people adhere to the code of conduct through self-control [8:06pm] SeanAbrahams: It's a good tool to have in members toolboxes so to speak [8:07pm] mike_ray: a real walden two would have scientists performing 'other-experiments' also [8:07pm] SeanAbrahams: And if effective, may take a lot of stress off of group experimentation [8:08pm] DaMaceMan: i would think that the benefits you're looking for in a culture of self-experimentation is really one of self-awareness. Isn't that the ultimate goal? [8:09pm] SeanAbrahams: How do you define self-awareness? [8:10pm] SeanAbrahams: Or rather, what is your definition [8:10pm] DaMaceMan: i guess an example would be: "I'm tired because I ate a greasy cheeseburger." [8:10pm] DaMaceMan: or "I'm angry because i would have done the same thing, but i didn [8:10pm] DaMaceMan: 't" [8:11pm] mike_ray: this is what skinner calls 'self-generated rules' [8:11pm] SeanAbrahams: So, for people to be able to identify the causes of their behavior (and feelings) [8:11pm] DaMaceMan: most people could probably benefit from just being able to say "i'm not interested in what i'm doing. I need to find something interesting about it or find something else to do." [8:12pm] DaMaceMan: i would say that's right. [8:12pm] DaMaceMan: I'm woefully under-read in Skinner. Actually, Walden-Two is it so far. [8:12pm] SeanAbrahams: Not only to identify them, but also how to change them [8:12pm] DaMaceMan: exactly. [8:12pm] DaMaceMan: "If i HADN'T eaten that cheeseburger ..." [8:13pm] SeanAbrahams: Self-Experimentation is _a_ tool that can help people change their behavior [8:13pm] mike_ray: what does self-experimentation mean? [8:14pm] SeanAbrahams: by having them collect data on themselves and then experimenting with different ways of changing their behavior [8:14pm] SeanAbrahams: Mike Ray: You want a formal definition? [8:14pm] mike_ray: nice [8:14pm] mike_ray: nope, that's a good one [8:15pm] SeanAbrahams: I would hope that the more an individual can control themselves (self-control) the easier it will be to create a Walden Two [8:16pm] DaMaceMan: well ... i dunno [8:16pm] DaMaceMan: i mean [8:16pm] DaMaceMan: obviously it wouldn't hurt [8:17pm] DaMaceMan: but couldn't you just as easily say that, ideally, if everyone had their basic needs fulfilled, their need for self control would be less? [8:17pm] SeanAbrahams: That's a good question [8:17pm] DaMaceMan: if you take away the need to compete, and supply the basic needs, there's a lot less to control [8:18pm] SeanAbrahams: I think self-control comes into play even then [8:18pm] SeanAbrahams: I'm thinking specifically of the interactions between people [8:18pm] JedBrensinger: like Frazier controlling his jealousy [8:18pm] mike_ray: good example [8:19pm] SeanAbrahams: Assuming no code of conduct existed in a community that provided for basic needs we'd still need to not offend or irritate others [8:19pm] DaMaceMan: i actually need a reminder on what he was jealous of ... [8:19pm] SeanAbrahams: Jed: Yeah, thanks for that example [8:19pm] SeanAbrahams: I was thinking more of just people who annoy you [8:20pm] SeanAbrahams: Having basic needs doesn't prevent someone from being obnoxious or a belligerent drunk [8:20pm] mike_ray: science and human behavior has a whole chapter on self-control [8:20pm] DaMaceMan: but you probably wouldn't drink in a Walden-Two [8:20pm] DaMaceMan: [8:20pm] mike_ray: I would [8:20pm] SeanAbrahams: Or an over-eater, or many other things [8:21pm] DaMaceMan: it's true, and i see what you're saying [8:21pm] DaMaceMan: but i think many of those issues would exist mostly in the first generation [8:21pm] SeanAbrahams: Yes, it's particularly true of the first generation [8:21pm] mike_ray: a good point! the converts, not those who grew up there [8:21pm] SeanAbrahams: I was just thinking about that today [8:22pm] SeanAbrahams: I'm glad you dropped by Christian, excellent observations and questions [8:22pm] mike_ray: walden two is basically a third generation strategy I think [8:22pm] DaMaceMan: Sean: Thanks [8:22pm] DaMaceMan: mike: agreed. [8:23pm] SeanAbrahams: BTW, I have to intersect here and recommend the book Ecotopia Emerging again [8:24pm] DaMaceMan: I think that you've most importantly brought up the idea of experimentation. Self or not, it's the foundation of a successful society - especially one grounded in the science of "the human problem" like Walden-X [8:24pm] SeanAbrahams: because while it is not Walden Two, it describes one fictional account of the 'how' of going from now to a better community [8:25pm] SeanAbrahams: and considering it was published in 1981, it could have been written last year [8:25pm] SeanAbrahams: meaning it's still relevant [8:25pm] SeanAbrahams: Ok [8:25pm] SeanAbrahams: Yes, the scientific method [8:26pm] SeanAbrahams: That opens up so many directions and topics [8:26pm] DaMaceMan: true. Warned you about me and digression, did i. Yeeeees. [8:27pm] SeanAbrahams: I think Mike had a good point in that self-experimentation is one way people can learn about the effectiveness of the scientific method [8:27pm] SeanAbrahams: I've been tracking when I fall asleep and when I wake up [8:27pm] SeanAbrahams: Here's a graph with a subset of the data I've collected: https://seanabrahams.dabbledb.com/page/seanabrahams/uMgATsLj [8:28pm] SeanAbrahams: That's 2 weeks of data [8:28pm] SeanAbrahams: Where I set my baseline [8:28pm] DaMaceMan: oh wow man, i'd be a zombie [8:29pm] mike_ray: a lot of variability [8:29pm] SeanAbrahams: It comes out to a median of about 8 hours... which surprised me even though that's what you hear all the time [8:29pm] SeanAbrahams: Indeed, that's what working on a startup does [8:30pm] SeanAbrahams: There are no times there, just duration, but if there were you'd be able to recognize that I don't have a normal day job [8:31pm] SeanAbrahams: But that's my baseline [8:31pm] SeanAbrahams: Meaning data collected without experimenting with anything [8:31pm] mike_ray: do you still have pierce and cheney' [8:32pm] mike_ray: ? [8:32pm] SeanAbrahams: The idea now would be that I would come up with ways to perhaps normalize that trend [8:32pm] SeanAbrahams: Mike: I don't know what that is, but I assume a book [8:33pm] mike_ray: behavior analysis and learning 2nd ed? [8:33pm] SeanAbrahams: I do not, I think you took it when I left for my trip and gave it to Mike M. [8:34pm] mike_ray: ah [8:34pm] mike_ray: ok [8:34pm] SeanAbrahams: Why? [8:34pm] mike_ray: he talks about baseline variability [8:34pm] SeanAbrahams: I'll need to look into it [8:34pm] SeanAbrahams: I need to [8:34pm] mike_ray: er they do I mean. If you have too much you need to have a very powerful intervention [8:35pm] mike_ray: so like you need to make yourself sleep like 3 hrs per day or 15 hrs per day ...? [8:36pm] SeanAbrahams: Haha, I wouldn't go with that one [8:37pm] SeanAbrahams: Well, I know my average sleep time is 8 hours, so if my goal is to wake up each day at 7am [8:37pm] SeanAbrahams: The simplest thing could be to go to sleep at 11 [8:37pm] SeanAbrahams: Then falling to sleep may become a problem [8:37pm] SeanAbrahams: How to get myself asleep at 11 [8:37pm] SeanAbrahams: Exercise, diet [8:38pm] SeanAbrahams: Tim Ferriss uses ice baths [8:38pm] SeanAbrahams: http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2008/01/27/relax-like-a-pro-5-steps-to-hacking-your-sleep/ [8:38pm] DaMaceMan: i think getting to sleep at that hour is easier than you may think [8:38pm] mike_ray: to fall asleep? [8:38pm] DaMaceMan: just wake up once on time [8:38pm] DaMaceMan: [8:39pm] SeanAbrahams: DaMaceMan: I have tried, but not systematically [8:39pm] SeanAbrahams: I need to though [8:39pm] DaMaceMan: if you find it hard to sleep at 11 after forcing yourself to wake up at 7, you probably need less sleep than that [8:40pm] DaMaceMan: it's hard with a system like the human body, though - i mean, your mind can do crazy things [8:40pm] SeanAbrahams: Yes, no matter when I wake I tend to fall asleep after 1am [8:41pm] SeanAbrahams: And to speak towards Mike's mention of needing powerful interventions [8:41pm] SeanAbrahams: When I do wake up at 7am it's because my girlfriend gets up at 7 [8:41pm] DaMaceMan: do you ever end up waking up at 10? [8:41pm] SeanAbrahams: and sometimes she can certainly be a powerful intervention [8:41pm] DaMaceMan: lol [8:42pm] SeanAbrahams: yeah, I wake up around 10 more often than not [8:42pm] DaMaceMan: as the country song goes: There's your trouble [8:42pm] SeanAbrahams: But I think you had a great point Christian and that is it's about being self-aware and having the knowledge and experience to control yourself [8:42pm] SeanAbrahams: DaMaceMan: or my savior in this case [8:43pm] DaMaceMan: lolz [8:43pm] DaMaceMan: i m d coolzorz [8:43pm] DaMaceMan: well i guess this is where we hit the wall with teaching self-experimentation [8:44pm] DaMaceMan: i didn't tell you anything you didn't already know or suspect [8:44pm] DaMaceMan: it's often impossible to convince people of something they don't already know or want to believe [8:45pm] SeanAbrahams: I'm not so sure about a wall [8:45pm] DaMaceMan: well, a wall still has chinks [8:45pm] SeanAbrahams: But yes, I can definitely relate to the convincing statement [8:45pm] DaMaceMan: [8:46pm] DaMaceMan: it's a question of finding the circle for the circle chink, the square for the square, etc [8:46pm] SeanAbrahams: Of the people that you've talked to about community, how many were receptive? [8:46pm] DaMaceMan: in my study of buddhism it was refered to as a "skill in means" [8:46pm] DaMaceMan: i've not tried to convince any [8:46pm] DaMaceMan: the most receptive is my wife, who just talked to me about all this yesterday [8:47pm] mike_ray: is she interested in walden two? [8:47pm] DaMaceMan: definitely [8:47pm] DaMaceMan: of course she has her reservations, but she hasn't read the book yet [8:48pm] SeanAbrahams: I look forward to finding out what she thinks after reading the book [8:48pm] DaMaceMan: me too! [8:49pm] DaMaceMan: she has a lot of schoolwork, though, so might be a while [8:50pm] SeanAbrahams: Well it's been well over an hour. I didn't stick to my outline, but perhaps the results were still reached? [8:50pm] DaMaceMan: i think that as with anything W2 related, it bears further fruitful discussion [8:50pm] mike_ray: you want to try to cover any remaining points? [8:50pm] DaMaceMan: thank you guys for letting me join in [8:51pm] mike_ray: DaMaceMan: you want to maybe give a talk on your impressions of Walden Two? [8:51pm] mike_ray: DaMaceMan: thanks for coming by [8:51pm] DaMaceMan: i'd love to [8:51pm] JedBrensinger: DaMaceMan: thanks for dropping by [8:51pm] SeanAbrahams: I want to encourage everyone here to stick around and chat if they have time [8:51pm] mike_ray: DaMaceMan: next week is taken by Elysha R-P, but I think the week after is open. Jed? [8:51pm] SeanAbrahams: I did have some other points which I am trying to recall [8:52pm] JedBrensinger: yeah, the following week is open [8:52pm] JedBrensinger: so that would be April 7 [8:52pm] mike_ray: April 7th work for you Christian? [8:52pm] DaMaceMan: i'll mark it down now [8:53pm] mike_ray: excellent [8:53pm] SeanAbrahams: DaMaceMan: Was it easy to find us? Meaning, did you just go to Google and type 'walden two' and found us? [8:54pm] DaMaceMan: essentially, yeah [8:54pm] DaMaceMan: gimme a sec and i'll give you a better idea [8:55pm] DaMaceMan: and yeah [8:55pm] DaMaceMan: that was it [8:55pm] DaMaceMan: walden-two and you're about half way down the results [8:55pm] DaMaceMan: everything else was a pretty obvious negative - books or links to definitions of the book [8:56pm] SeanAbrahams: Cool [8:56pm] DaMaceMan: so i'm going for a walk around the block with my wife and nephew [8:56pm] DaMaceMan: y'all be around later? [8:56pm] SeanAbrahams: Cool, enjoy [8:57pm] SeanAbrahams: Come by and see, I hope so [8:57pm] mike_ray: later! [8:57pm] mike_ray: Sean: thanks for giving our #2 talk! [8:57pm] JedBrensinger: thanks sean [8:57pm] DaMaceMan: later! Thanks again! I look forward to the rest of our talks! (and who knows, maybe some actions!) [8:57pm] DaMaceMan: yeah, thank you sean. very interesting topic [8:58pm] SeanAbrahams: Of course. I want to know how important everyone thinks it is to stick to the outline or have more free-flowing talks [8:58pm] mike_ray: Maybe let the speaker decide? [8:58pm] SeanAbrahams: I didn't stick to the outline because I think Christian had excellent questions [8:58pm] mike_ray: some people are nervous w/out structure [8:58pm] DaMaceMan: excellent point mike [8:59pm] JedBrensinger: i think it works either way [8:59pm] DaMaceMan: and sean, much easier to do with a good moderator and subject matter! [8:59pm] DaMaceMan: ttyguys later [8:59pm] DaMaceMan left the chat room. ("Give me the Hamburgteria instead!") [8:59pm] SeanAbrahams: Well that's cool [8:59pm] JedBrensinger: yeah [9:00pm] SeanAbrahams: I think for my next talk my "handout" will be more informative and give references and the talk will be free-flow and I'll moderate [9:00pm] mike_ray: sounds good [9:00pm] SeanAbrahams: Christian's presence of reinforcing [9:00pm] SeanAbrahams: s/of/was [9:00pm] SeanAbrahams: was reinforcing [9:00pm] SeanAbrahams: I'm interested to learning more about him, he seemed well versed [9:01pm] JedBrensinger: yeah [9:01pm] JedBrensinger: nice to have him sohow up "out of the blue" [9:03pm] mike_ray: well I'm out of here. Thanks Jed! Can you send me the log when you have a chance Sean? [9:03pm] mike_ray left the chat room. [9:04pm] JedBrensinger: you going to stay on awhile sean [9:04pm] SeanAbrahams: I'll be in here but I have to do some work [9:05pm] JedBrensinger: ok, just wondering if someone would be here if Christian comes back [9:05pm] SeanAbrahams: Yeah, hopefully I'll be around [9:06pm] SeanAbrahams: Thanks again [9:06pm] JedBrensinger: sure, thanks for the talk [9:08pm] JedBrensinger: i'm gonna get going, getting late here [9:09pm] JedBrensinger: I'll see you next week [9:09pm] SeanAbrahams: ok [9:10pm] SeanAbrahams: Cheers [9:10pm] JedBrensinger left the chat room. ("Give me the Hamburgteria instead!")