**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Mar 31 18:27:15 2008 Mar 31 18:27:25 test Mar 31 18:27:27 test Mar 31 18:27:28 test Mar 31 18:27:28 test Mar 31 18:31:13 when you get a chance Christian can you op me? Thanks Mar 31 18:34:01 * AugustineCastle0 (n=fn-javac@207.106.123.38) has joined #waldentwo Mar 31 18:34:13 * AugustineCastle0 is now known as JedBrensinger Mar 31 18:34:56 hi guys Mar 31 18:35:18 * seanabrahams (n=seanabra@adsl-76-254-27-110.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) has joined #waldentwo Mar 31 18:37:40 howdy Mar 31 18:37:54 hi there Mar 31 18:37:58 howdy Jed Mar 31 18:38:14 I attempted to get Jessica B. for the week following Mar 31 18:38:28 I asked her to run it by you Mar 31 18:38:40 yeah I just got an email from her Mar 31 18:38:44 cool Mar 31 18:38:45 seems good to me Mar 31 18:38:58 excellent Mar 31 18:39:06 * You are now known as MichaelRay Mar 31 18:39:19 CamelCaseIsCool Mar 31 18:39:56 oh yeah Mar 31 18:40:27 :-) Mar 31 18:40:49 how's your week been going Mar 31 18:40:57 its been good Mar 31 18:41:04 I spent a day or so in SF Mar 31 18:41:13 it was very nice weather there Mar 31 18:41:28 that's nice Mar 31 18:41:29 allowed me to feel a little less stressed from school Mar 31 18:41:33 how about you? Mar 31 18:42:02 going good Mar 31 18:42:15 excellent Mar 31 18:42:21 I am excited about our talk tonight Mar 31 18:42:40 yeah, it's a good idea for a topic Mar 31 18:42:57 I was impressed with the outline Mar 31 18:43:20 yeah Mar 31 18:44:01 I think Jessica's will be good too Mar 31 18:44:13 She is, I think, going for a more "question and answer" format Mar 31 18:44:28 are you on spring break? Mar 31 18:44:34 no Mar 31 18:44:45 i am just ending mine Mar 31 18:44:47 had that a few weeks ago Mar 31 18:44:52 ah Mar 31 18:45:33 I found 270 lbs of free weights in SF while I was there Mar 31 18:45:42 oh yeah Mar 31 18:45:48 yep Mar 31 18:45:52 in noe valley Mar 31 18:45:57 you know SF at all? Mar 31 18:46:01 no Mar 31 18:46:50 http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Noe+Valley,+San+Francisco,+CA,+USA&ie=UTF8&ll=37.75633,-122.433529&spn=0.027076,0.058365&z=14&iwloc=addr Mar 31 18:47:21 There was a full weight set, non-olympic bar, bench, and rack all on the corner Mar 31 18:47:26 sign said 'free' Mar 31 18:48:01 are you a fan of rock music? Mar 31 18:48:05 yeah Mar 31 18:49:20 I was trying to see an old classmate perform in her band side project Mar 31 18:49:36 here is her old project manhaterrr Mar 31 18:49:40 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZvXp6_OkzY Mar 31 18:50:05 it is kinda noise rockey/experimental Mar 31 18:51:14 yeah Mar 31 18:51:33 also visited the cardboard institute of technology (before it opened) Mar 31 18:51:37 http://www.cellspace.org/new/ Mar 31 18:53:35 cool Mar 31 18:54:40 I have been listening to more mellow things though Mar 31 18:54:45 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of3ZdK8aKqQ&feature=related Mar 31 18:54:48 erik satie Mar 31 18:54:52 brb Mar 31 18:56:02 whoa Mar 31 18:56:07 where'd you all come from? Mar 31 18:56:08 ;-) Mar 31 18:56:43 just out of nowhere Mar 31 18:57:04 sean is just idle Mar 31 18:57:06 i had a feeling i was missing out, so i turned my tab back to this one Mar 31 18:57:16 how do i op someone? Mar 31 18:57:29 oh Mar 31 18:57:31 right Mar 31 18:57:33 never mind Mar 31 18:57:41 that was kind of a short learning curve Mar 31 18:57:50 * ChristianMacy gives channel operator status to MichaelRay Mar 31 18:57:51 yeah Mar 31 18:58:09 ah, the power of the right click Mar 31 18:58:19 yeah Mar 31 18:59:04 so how's your week been Mar 31 19:00:37 pretty good Mar 31 19:01:05 my wife started looking at that ic page and about flipped at how cool it was that there were so many communities out there Mar 31 19:01:35 Christian: thanks man! Mar 31 19:01:38 np :-) Mar 31 19:01:43 * MichaelRay gives channel operator status to JedBrensinger Mar 31 19:01:49 * MichaelRay gives channel operator status to seanabrahams Mar 31 19:02:05 what's the benefit of op, btw? aside from booting people, etc? Mar 31 19:02:20 I see it as mostly defensive Mar 31 19:02:36 although it can be used offensively (in both meanings of that term) Mar 31 19:03:01 probably less of an issue on freenode, but I am used to the wild and wooly EfNet Mar 31 19:03:20 your wife is digging the ic.org page? Mar 31 19:03:26 yep Mar 31 19:03:28 nice Mar 31 19:03:34 i've seen her on it a few times Mar 31 19:03:46 she still hasn't read w2, though Mar 31 19:03:57 we must be patient :-) Mar 31 19:03:57 reading her own book and has schoolwork Mar 31 19:04:14 I guess we will learn how to communicate walden two tonight Mar 31 19:04:22 true Mar 31 19:04:23 so ppl won't need to read the book? Mar 31 19:04:31 i don't know about that Mar 31 19:04:51 i kind of think that until it gets started, there will be 3 kinds of people: Mar 31 19:04:58 * MichaelRay has changed the topic to: Elysha Rom-Povolo topic Communicating Walden Two @ 7:30 pm PST Mar 31 19:05:05 people who join us to get it started (they will have read the book) Mar 31 19:05:35 people who say they'll help us get it started (might have read it, probably just agreed to help) Mar 31 19:05:47 and people who will say "build it, and i'll come" Mar 31 19:06:03 yes, good point Mar 31 19:06:20 some people only believe with their eyes, but others with their ears (and hearts) Mar 31 19:06:24 i think that when it comes to convincing people to join us, the book says it better than any of us probably could in a conversation Mar 31 19:06:30 right Mar 31 19:06:32 true Mar 31 19:06:42 yeah Mar 31 19:06:47 although we need to convince them to read it - chicken and egg Mar 31 19:06:48 like we said last time, you can only convince the people who don't need convincing Mar 31 19:07:07 I like to think that everybody is a secret Waldenist Mar 31 19:07:23 although Elysha's outline suggests that it's 70% or so I think Mar 31 19:07:28 or as Elysha said, you can't convince people for whom your facts contradict their beliefs Mar 31 19:07:32 yes Mar 31 19:07:57 i would say, though, that that 30 percent number is fairly aggressive on this topic Mar 31 19:08:03 brb Mar 31 19:08:07 k Mar 31 19:08:27 so Christian I saw that you scubadive Mar 31 19:08:38 yeah, but rarely (unfortunately) Mar 31 19:08:40 i love it! Mar 31 19:08:45 i dive too Mar 31 19:08:48 oh yah? Mar 31 19:08:52 frequently? Mar 31 19:09:10 not too much Mar 31 19:09:23 nowhere to go around here Mar 31 19:09:30 where are you again? Mar 31 19:09:36 Pennsylvania Mar 31 19:09:48 hmm - no wreck dives off the coast? Mar 31 19:10:09 eh Mar 31 19:10:32 the closest thing to wreck would probably subway cars as artifical reefs Mar 31 19:10:40 uck Mar 31 19:10:53 well, either way, i don't think i'd be into a wreck, personally Mar 31 19:11:03 yeah Mar 31 19:11:17 i've been diving down in the keys and mexico Mar 31 19:11:31 i guess that settles it - if we ever do some kind of conference, it'll be in SoCal ;-) Mar 31 19:11:46 i've been to Mexico and the BVI Mar 31 19:11:54 the latter is where i got my openwater Mar 31 19:11:59 yeah Mar 31 19:12:06 where in mexico Mar 31 19:13:05 Cancun and Puerto Vallarta Mar 31 19:13:19 nice Mar 31 19:13:35 it was good times for sure Mar 31 19:13:41 i definitely want to go again soon Mar 31 19:13:50 yeah Mar 31 19:13:56 it's always a good time Mar 31 19:14:04 LuAnne and i went snorkeling on our honeymoon (she doesn't dive) but it wasn't quite the same :-D Mar 31 19:14:27 yeah, not the same Mar 31 19:16:00 oh, i forgot to mention that this week i also beat Assassin's Creed for the PS3 and wore a skirt, fedora, and wooden clogs to a party. Mar 31 19:16:26 wow, exciting week Mar 31 19:16:58 oh right, and i also moved about 50 cubic feet of dirt in 5 or 6 hours Mar 31 19:17:06 (we're making a garden) Mar 31 19:17:22 oh Mar 31 19:17:34 ... man ... all that stuff was over the weekend - i don't think i did anything cool during the week now that i think about it Mar 31 19:17:59 wow Mar 31 19:18:18 busy weekend then Mar 31 19:18:29 yeah - pretty fun :-) Mar 31 19:18:40 What about you? Fun weekend? Week? Mar 31 19:19:05 not too much Mar 31 19:19:13 just started an experiment last week Mar 31 19:20:18 what kind of experiment? Mar 31 19:20:38 * AugustineCastle0 (n=fn-javac@adsl-75-6-155-138.dsl.skt2ca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #waldentwo Mar 31 19:21:24 hi there Mar 31 19:21:27 brb Mar 31 19:21:49 Hi Mar 31 19:22:02 How do I change my name? Mar 31 19:22:11 bottom right corner Mar 31 19:22:25 change nick to Mar 31 19:22:36 bottom right Mar 31 19:23:11 * AugustineCastle0 is now known as JessicaB Mar 31 19:23:13 * AugustineCastle3 (n=fn-javac@adsl-76-254-27-110.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) has joined #waldentwo Mar 31 19:23:22 * AugustineCastle2 (n=fn-javac@dhcp-thornton214-241.sfsu.edu) has joined #waldentwo Mar 31 19:23:25 Thanks! Mar 31 19:23:30 sure Mar 31 19:23:31 hello Mar 31 19:23:38 hi there Mar 31 19:23:49 howdy, alls Mar 31 19:23:57 * AugustineCastle3 (n=fn-javac@adsl-76-254-27-110.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) has left #waldentwo Mar 31 19:23:59 Howdy! **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Mar 31 19:24:08 2008 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Mar 31 19:24:08 2008 Mar 31 19:24:20 howdy Mar 31 19:24:22 Agh! Augustine Castle and Clones are attacking en masse! Mar 31 19:24:32 they are friends :-) Mar 31 19:24:45 * elysharom-povolo (n=elysharo@adsl-76-254-27-110.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) has joined #waldentwo Mar 31 19:24:49 Hi Mar 31 19:24:52 howdy Mar 31 19:24:53 Well, visiting en mass then ;-) Mar 31 19:25:05 yes Mar 31 19:25:15 * seanabrahams is now known as SeanAbrahams Mar 31 19:25:43 who's castle Mar 31 19:25:44 AugustineCastles you can change your nick with forward slash /nick and return Mar 31 19:25:52 it is the default name for java users Mar 31 19:26:13 i personally prefer the "change nick to" in the bottom right corner :-) Mar 31 19:26:27 I have had bad luck with that but if it works Mar 31 19:26:36 Christian: do you click something or just hit return? Mar 31 19:26:37 * AugustineCastle2 is now known as highermonkey Mar 31 19:26:47 welcome mike m. Mar 31 19:26:56 i think you have to hit return, but i've never not done it ... Mar 31 19:27:19 ok Mar 31 19:27:23 seems to work Mar 31 19:27:24 yep - need to hit return Mar 31 19:27:59 how you been mike? Mar 31 19:28:10 gut, danke Mar 31 19:28:24 wunderbar Mar 31 19:28:30 y tu? Mar 31 19:28:37 muy bien Mar 31 19:29:13 * MichaelRay gives channel operator status to elysharom-povolo Mar 31 19:29:19 * MichaelRay gives channel operator status to highermonkey Mar 31 19:29:21 Excellent turnout Mar 31 19:29:23 * MichaelRay gives channel operator status to JessicaB Mar 31 19:29:29 Sean: yar Mar 31 19:29:33 Yeah for real Mar 31 19:29:35 keeps getting better Mar 31 19:29:39 The world will soon be ours .. Mar 31 19:29:48 So... Mar 31 19:29:53 shall we begin? Mar 31 19:29:58 sure! Mar 31 19:30:04 By all means :-) Mar 31 19:30:28 ok Mar 31 19:30:31 let's plunge Mar 31 19:30:36 Has everyone here read the pdf I sent out? Mar 31 19:30:41 yes Mar 31 19:30:41 Don't feel bad if you haven't Mar 31 19:30:43 yep Mar 31 19:30:44 yup Mar 31 19:30:45 yes, it was quite good Mar 31 19:30:46 yeah Mar 31 19:30:48 ok great Mar 31 19:30:49 thanks Mar 31 19:31:13 well, I guess what I was thinking for this was that since what I wrote has come mostly from my experiences Mar 31 19:31:28 I would really like to hear about other people's experience - especailly focusing on what works Mar 31 19:31:52 experiences generally or spec. to walden two? Mar 31 19:32:15 I guess both - but I think it would be great to focus on Walden Two Mar 31 19:32:21 since that is the point after all Mar 31 19:32:40 me and sean did some "internet outreach" targeted to people who expressed positive views of waldentwo Mar 31 19:32:43 Also, I was wondering if anyone had any questions, comments etc. Mar 31 19:32:58 Yes, we did, it was highly effective Mar 31 19:33:13 their responses were positive, some were very active for awhile, some are still members of the newsgroup Mar 31 19:33:39 these were people already exposed to behaviorism too? Mar 31 19:33:42 me and Sean approached people at CalABA and talked to professor types about w2 Mar 31 19:33:51 By "internet outreach" Mike means we emailed people who wrote positive reviews of Walden Two on Amazon.com Mar 31 19:33:53 elysha: some were some just wrote about w2 Mar 31 19:34:19 What about talking with people who hadn't been exposed to it before? Mar 31 19:34:46 some Mar 31 19:35:02 Sean had some experiences with that Mar 31 19:35:14 a feller named something black I think? Mar 31 19:35:20 aaron? Mar 31 19:35:37 although I am not sure if "not exposed" and "highly opposed to" are the same thing Mar 31 19:35:43 swartz not black Mar 31 19:35:45 I have had the least success with it when I would talk about the technical aspects of W2 (Radical behaviorism, scientific method, free will vs determinism) Mar 31 19:35:46 no they aren't Mar 31 19:35:56 yeah, likewise Mar 31 19:35:57 I think there's a lot of people out there already interested in communes, who don't actually live on them. If we limited ourselves to preaching to the choir, we could still do rather well Mar 31 19:36:23 yes, or appealing to those who are already pro-community in general Mar 31 19:36:36 getting the choir to sing a new song? Mar 31 19:36:37 I think that is because although these are technically the correct terms to use, they don't convey the right meanings to people who are just being exposed to the ideas Mar 31 19:36:39 And the most success when just tailoring the message to the person and staying away from technicalities Mar 31 19:36:39 Even among people who are interested in ICs, though, I've found determinism isn't popular Mar 31 19:37:09 Basically exactly what Elysha's handout says to do :-) Mar 31 19:37:43 LIke, approaching it from a free will vs. determinism standpoint is talking about the philosophy but not really the reality... and it leads people to believe that their "freedom" is going to be inhibited Mar 31 19:37:54 yes Mar 31 19:37:57 Yeah, I don't even think we need to enter the philosophical realm Mar 31 19:38:04 I agree. Mar 31 19:38:05 same with saying science - it makes people thier lives will be run in a labority Mar 31 19:38:18 good point Mar 31 19:38:36 so then walden two is an arts community? Mar 31 19:39:00 I think you can say it is a community that embraces research Mar 31 19:39:01 I hope science isn't a bad word just yet, but I think determinism and communism are good ones to avoid Mar 31 19:39:01 an ecological, sustainable community with time for leisure, fun, art, music, literature...? Mar 31 19:39:11 sounds good Mar 31 19:39:22 research! Mar 31 19:39:32 I think that that touches the philosophical underpinings without turning people off Mar 31 19:39:34 :-) Mar 31 19:39:46 but all those things you said too Mar 31 19:39:52 It's an art community for people who are artists, a science community for people who are scientists, a farming society for people who are farmers Mar 31 19:40:06 so, you find "science" offends, "research" doesn't? Mar 31 19:40:08 a research community for researchers? Mar 31 19:40:35 i agree with some of this, but i also think that it's possible to talk about a new societal model without taking a seemingly radical road Mar 31 19:41:12 for example, i don't think it's necessary to highlight the behaviorist aspect until after a few conversations Mar 31 19:41:14 * AugustineCastle6 (n=fn-javac@74.211.19.200) has joined #waldentwo Mar 31 19:41:14 fair enough Mar 31 19:41:21 mike minton: I haven't done a test, but that is my hunch Mar 31 19:41:21 welcome Augustine! Mar 31 19:41:47 Christian: behaviorism is just a research philosophy Mar 31 19:41:48 realistically, discussing a community where people can do work that interests them, and have all their needs supplied Mar 31 19:41:55 connotations are always tricky Mar 31 19:42:14 * AugustineCastle6 has quit (Client Quit) Mar 31 19:42:15 a place where competitiveness is unnecessary Mar 31 19:42:29 good line Mar 31 19:42:32 those are fairly attractive, and invite questions Mar 31 19:42:42 questions asked are better than answers given Mar 31 19:42:47 Christian (and all): at some point people are going to be exposed to behaviorism - but when they are you want them to be excited and ready for it... Mar 31 19:43:21 very good point, elysha. They have to know what's to gain before they find the means to the end Mar 31 19:43:38 so the key is to generate or build excitement Mar 31 19:43:43 Christian: nice line, the questions one Mar 31 19:43:58 I hate to say it, but RadioShack taught me how to think sales. Bastards ;-) Mar 31 19:44:12 I'd like to experiment with exposing people to W2 by asking them questions Mar 31 19:44:14 (Sean: Thanks, i'm good with the one-liners :-D ) Mar 31 19:44:26 yeah, i mean, i am thinking about the first time someone is hearing about W2... so it is an important time where in 5 minutes using a few terms that turn them off, can ruin their opinion forever Mar 31 19:44:28 the socratic approach Mar 31 19:44:48 Maybe that's something we can add to Elysha's hand out, "The Socratic Approach" Mar 31 19:45:01 do you favor questions elysha? Mar 31 19:45:07 It's a tricky conversation to get into without flipping the "beware, sales pitch approaching" button. Mar 31 19:45:20 it depends on the questions ;) Mar 31 19:46:00 Christian: if you ever have a minute, you should compile a list of those one liners for w2... tag lines are excellent Mar 31 19:46:12 Sean: what kind of questions? Mar 31 19:46:17 The emotional narrative in elisha's PDF reminded me of a tactic used by a guy named Ron Jeffries to pick up women. I suppose the same principals apply to new members Mar 31 19:46:28 lol - sweet. .1 credit hours, plz ;-) Mar 31 19:46:59 Well, we can start off by highlighting the points that will apply to everyone Mar 31 19:47:12 eliciting a positive emotional reaction is fairly universal to anything I think, Mike Mar 31 19:47:23 Minimal of work, more time for yourself/family/friends, free life long education Mar 31 19:47:50 and then just ask them, "How do you wish your life was different?" Mar 31 19:47:56 see, that's where i'd start getting wary Mar 31 19:47:58 and see if their answer fits into W2 Mar 31 19:48:14 in psychotherapy there is what is called the 'miracle question' Mar 31 19:48:16 it's that "too good to be true" reaction Mar 31 19:48:24 The problem is that then you set them up to ask immediately: and how are you going to do that? Mar 31 19:48:30 if you woke up tomorrow in the perfect society what would be different? Mar 31 19:48:42 that is a good one Mar 31 19:48:59 i think it really varies by the person you're talking to Mar 31 19:49:22 But it means something different to everyone Mar 31 19:49:50 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solution_focused_brief_therapy#Questions Mar 31 19:49:59 Also, that might be a really good question to get a stranger to start talking and thinking, but if you are talking to a friend or acquaintence, they may just find it odd Mar 31 19:50:00 Christian: I agree, it does sound too good to be true. I tend to forget that since I have already reconciled with myself that it is possible. Mar 31 19:50:04 so if you could describe it in such a way that each person imagined what they want Mar 31 19:50:10 the purpose of this miracle question is to determine what is important to the person answering the question Mar 31 19:50:16 exactly Mar 31 19:50:18 I think that Elysha brought up a really good point in her pdf about leading with "You think politics are messed up too?" Mar 31 19:50:36 well the idea is that you insert it into a normal conversation Mar 31 19:50:47 get them excited, then hand them the book Mar 31 19:50:49 haha Mar 31 19:51:05 do you think we might go for a pamphlet on walden two first? Mar 31 19:51:07 so the miracle question calibrates the person, and then the spiel is taylored around the miracle question? Mar 31 19:51:07 right, but you also allow the person to come up with a few ways to fix a specific problem, or get interested in the answer Mar 31 19:51:13 but seriously considering outreach to strangers is a whole different story Mar 31 19:51:18 You could ask the other question that doesn't invite so much responsibility on us... What is one small thing, that if it were to happen, would make you think things were getting better? Mar 31 19:51:38 yes Mar 31 19:51:45 the 'minimal goals' question Mar 31 19:52:00 I like how you are naming each of these Mike :) Mar 31 19:52:10 that would be a safer way, since their miracle may be one even W2 can't provide Mar 31 19:52:13 i should probably ask this sooner than later: What are we aiming to achieve with the "converts"? We have no current tangible product... Mar 31 19:52:14 its from solution focused therapy (SFT) Mar 31 19:52:43 well w2 isn't going to start if only 7 of us are excited... Mar 31 19:52:46 highermonkey: the idea is that they'd say something like "the perfect society would have no cars, or would be minimally polluting, or people would be happy" Mar 31 19:52:57 We want them to move in with us when we have land so we can all have a utopia together Mar 31 19:53:08 highermonkey: then we can approach them with the aspect of w2 that addresses that issue . Mar 31 19:53:14 I mean, it might but the more people that are involved the happier our chances of success, the way I see it Mar 31 19:53:25 of course if they say 'china wouldn't be in tibet' it's a little harder Mar 31 19:53:33 Well i guess that's my point - how can we hope to keep them excited once we get them interested without involving them in the process Mar 31 19:53:38 that's what i meant Mar 31 19:53:38 elysha: yes, we need numbers Mar 31 19:53:50 and how many people can we get involved in the process without diluting our goals Mar 31 19:53:55 why wouldn't they be involved in teh process? Mar 31 19:54:02 ah Mar 31 19:54:10 Mike Ray? Mar 31 19:54:13 highermonkey: it can still be generalized - foreign invasions, and then the motivations to foreign invasions, and then the role of capitalism, etc. Mar 31 19:54:31 elysha: yes? Mar 31 19:54:46 or anyone, Christian had a good question Mar 31 19:54:53 diluting our goals? Mar 31 19:54:56 that I don't know the answer to Mar 31 19:54:56 yes Mar 31 19:55:07 I think the answer is quality, not quantity Mar 31 19:55:14 I don't see how numbers would dilute our goals if we have a strong organizational system Mar 31 19:55:19 the planner-manager system is ideal for this Mar 31 19:55:34 if we opt for a more lax system then it does become problematic and we risk Twin Oaks Mar 31 19:55:48 essentially being "taken over" by people who don't care about research, etc. Mar 31 19:56:01 so my answer to the dilution problem is: organization Mar 31 19:56:01 yeah i see the planner-manager system as the answer to quality Mar 31 19:56:22 I guess at this stage in the game, the more people we have interested, the better Mar 31 19:56:24 all the new members could decide that we all become rich if we sell mineral rights to deBeers Mar 31 19:56:25 agreed. Mar 31 19:56:53 MIke: if you have the assets I'm game Mar 31 19:57:20 ok, before we get too far off, I just want to ask if anyone has anything to add, experience wise, question wise etc to the communicating topic? Mar 31 19:57:44 If not, I think this is a good tangent to go off on :) but if so, I dont want to move away too quickly Mar 31 19:57:56 how do we identify the 30% 'resistent' quickly? Mar 31 19:58:04 I think my original question still stands ... what do we do once we've got someone interested? Mar 31 19:58:09 They "turn off" Mar 31 19:58:13 Christian: I would say that our goal could be to get X number of people who somewhat regularly attend these meeting and will be willing and able to move to a Walden Two experiment or donate in some way (time, money, expertise) Mar 31 19:58:35 Yeah, get people interested, get them to read walden two, join the group, learn more Mar 31 19:58:46 Christian: we need something akin to a news reporter inside the community movement and local to the area they are in Mar 31 19:59:06 we need people to find out about land prices, sympathetic people, auctions, existing communities Mar 31 19:59:14 I think MR hits on a good point Mar 31 19:59:20 maybe we should target our efforts Mar 31 19:59:21 I think once you start talking people you will recognize it quickly... it is like people will get angry, change the subject, or in some way just make you stop talking Mar 31 19:59:34 elysha: ok Mar 31 20:00:04 I know what she means. Mar 31 20:00:57 MichaelRay: Well, if they answer your Miracle Question with something like "Lower gas prices and kicking our illegal aliens" they can be labeled in the 30% Mar 31 20:01:10 ha! Mar 31 20:01:10 out, not our Mar 31 20:01:17 Its not always that easy, but yes Mar 31 20:01:28 To your point, Elysha, i think one of the most important things we can keep in mind is that this is a good idea Mar 31 20:01:35 people who hear about it will think about it Mar 31 20:01:45 Yeah, I agree Mar 31 20:01:55 Sean: I suspect some might say "Lower pot prices and uniting with The Aliens" - are they 30% too? Mar 31 20:01:59 it's likely that no one you have to *convince* will stick around forever Mar 31 20:02:05 definitely Mar 31 20:02:08 exactly Mar 31 20:02:42 and they may seem to turn off at the time, but sometimes things just need to knock around in our heads a while before they stick Mar 31 20:02:50 I mean, the reality is that Americans are pretty into "American" values like independence, etc... that are pretty counter some of the things that W2 represents Mar 31 20:02:53 yes Mar 31 20:03:06 that is true Mar 31 20:03:22 I think focusing on the uniqueness and exciting aspects are important too Mar 31 20:03:28 adventure Mar 31 20:03:29 like - hey - this is ground breaking! Mar 31 20:03:39 Well, MichaelRay and I have talked a lot about how Walden Two gives you more Freedom, in case anyone hits you up with "limiting their freedom" Mar 31 20:03:43 Skinner said he wrote it as a means to appeal to those who wanted adventure Mar 31 20:03:50 this is going to be big and change the world while giving you a great life Mar 31 20:04:11 freedom warps back into determinism tho' which is easily misunderstood Mar 31 20:04:28 yeah it is the same word for different concepts in a way Mar 31 20:04:28 political freedom versus philosophical freedom confuse many Mar 31 20:04:39 well said Mar 31 20:04:53 W2 = More Freedom because you have more personal time, less work, all your basic needs taken care of Mar 31 20:04:56 thanks Mar 31 20:05:03 the D word is probably best avoided when talking to any non psychologist Mar 31 20:05:05 But that brings us back to "to good to be true" Mar 31 20:05:20 and that brings me to another question Mar 31 20:05:31 higher: any non scientist at least Mar 31 20:05:35