[6:47pm] You are now known as SeanAbrahams.
[6:47pm] ChristianMacy: whew - if you hadn't done that, i wouldn
[6:47pm] ChristianMacy: t know who you were
[6:47pm] ChristianMacy:                          
[6:48pm] SeanAbrahams: I was afraid of violating the Walden Two Code of Conduct
[6:48pm] ChristianMacy: (apparently i also don't know how to type or use tenses)
[6:48pm] ChristianMacy: lolz
[6:49pm] ChristianMacy: just don't thank anyone - that's grounds for an inquisition 
[6:49pm] ChristianMacy was promoted to operator by AugustineCastle.
[6:49pm] ChristianMacy: ok, so no inquisition, but definitely peeling potatoes!
[6:49pm] You were promoted to operator by AugustineCastle.
[6:50pm] AugustineCastle: even peeling is punishment
[6:50pm] JedBrensinger: only if it is punishing to you
[6:50pm] AugustineCastle is now known as MikeRay.
[6:50pm] ChristianMacy: that's true
[6:51pm] JedBrensinger: some people might like peeling potatos
[6:51pm] ChristianMacy: one man's peeling is another man's pleasure?
[6:51pm] JedBrensinger: yeah, that wouldn't be me, but
[6:52pm] JedBrensinger: some people
[6:53pm] ChristianMacy: wouldn't it be awesome if every day chores could be socialized out?
[6:53pm] ChristianMacy: you like doing laundry?? I like fixing light sockets! Let's trade!
[6:53pm] JedBrensinger: yeah
[6:54pm] SeanAbrahams: Well I believe that is how it goes
[6:54pm] SeanAbrahams: With the labor desk
[6:54pm] MikeRay left the chat room.
[6:55pm] ChristianMacy: see? that's a selling point right there.
[6:56pm] ChristianMacy: although Skinner implies that personal rooms are left to one's own devices
[6:58pm] JedBrensinger: does that mean that all work in personal rooms is the responsibility of the inhabitant?
[6:59pm] ChristianMacy: seems like it. Otherwise Frazier wouldn't have had a mess to use for his comparison between how his mind works and how his room is maintained.
[6:59pm] ChristianMacy: brb
[7:00pm] JedBrensinger: i think you get to do what you want with your room
[7:00pm] JedBrensinger: keep it messy, decorate, choose what color
[7:00pm] mike_ray joined the chat room.
[7:00pm] mike_ray is now known as MikeRay.
[7:01pm] JedBrensinger: but that maintanance would be done in them all regardless
[7:02pm] ChristianMacy: right, but in any scenario you're the one responsible, i think. No maid service 
[7:03pm] ChristianMacy: (although really, i'd imagine that there very well could be. Some people really dig on fluffing and folding!)
[7:03pm] JedBrensinger: yeah, you would just report any maintanance problems to the mainatnace manager
[7:03pm] JedBrensinger: laundry service might be good
[7:04pm] ChristianMacy: i was definitely wondering how the clothing thing worked out.
[7:04pm] ChristianMacy: I know that they were shared, but was there a system?
[7:04pm] JedBrensinger: you mean sharing clothes
[7:05pm] ChristianMacy: yeah. The clothes were said to be the community's. So i'd imagine that you could probably have a few sets of duds out at a time, then trade them in for different ones if you wanted a change.
[7:06pm] JedBrensinger: yeah
[7:06pm] JedBrensinger: i think it might be smart to have changing rooms next to bathrooms
[7:06pm] JedBrensinger: there you could drop off dirty clothes to be laundered
[7:06pm] JedBrensinger: once clean, they'd be placed back in there according to size
[7:07pm] JedBrensinger: so you find your size and pick out the clothes you want to wear any day
[7:07pm] ChristianMacy: That's a pretty great idea.
[7:07pm] ChristianMacy: Data tracking could be used to ensure that there were always enough clothes of a certain size
[7:08pm] JedBrensinger: yeah
[7:08pm] JedBrensinger: we could know when to rotate new clothes in
[7:08pm] JedBrensinger: as well as change types for different seasons
[7:08pm] ChristianMacy: i think they handled that with layers
[7:08pm] ChristianMacy: which seems like a good idea
[7:09pm] JedBrensinger: yeah
[7:09pm] ChristianMacy: that way you never have clothes sitting around during part of the year (in non-exceptional circumstances)
[7:09pm] elysharom-povolo joined the chat room.
[7:09pm] JedBrensinger: that's smart
[7:09pm] elysharom-povolo: hi
[7:09pm] ChristianMacy: welcome 
[7:09pm] JedBrensinger: hi elysha
[7:10pm] elysharom-povolo: how's it going?
[7:10pm] ChristianMacy: btw, i don't think i actually said: Hi Jed! Hi Sean! Hi Mike!
[7:10pm] ChristianMacy: we were just talking about clothes at W2
[7:11pm] JedBrensinger: trying to figure out the best way to handle clothes and laundry
[7:13pm] JedBrensinger: what are your ideas on clothing and clothing sharing
[7:16pm] JedBrensinger: Christian: what do you think about fashion/different types of clothing
[7:16pm] elysharom-povolo: mmm
[7:16pm] elysharom-povolo: I would assume people would bring some clothes...
[7:17pm] elysharom-povolo: and we would have fabric
[7:17pm] elysharom-povolo: so people could make their own, or request things made for them
[7:17pm] ChristianMacy: i'd imagine that that would be the ideal
[7:18pm] ChristianMacy: seamsters and seamstresses who'd enjoy coming up with and putting together new clothes.
[7:18pm] elysharom-povolo: yeah
[7:18pm] elysharom-povolo: i mean some things would be different..
[7:18pm] elysharom-povolo: I visited a jeans factory in south america and it was apalling
[7:18pm] SeanAbrahams: W2 is also about art and creativity, so I would suspect that anyone interested in being creative in fashion/clothing can be
[7:19pm] elysharom-povolo: I cant imagine we would have much use for harmful toxic bleaches etc in our fashion lines
[7:19pm] ChristianMacy: totally
[7:19pm] ChristianMacy: (to both)
[7:20pm] JedBrensinger: how did you think the laundry situation was handled in W2
[7:20pm] JedBrensinger: individual, laundry service?
[7:21pm] elysharom-povolo: i dont know
[7:21pm] ChristianMacy: actually, jed
[7:21pm] elysharom-povolo: it seems like we would have to be able to come up with a better system than individual water consuming washers
[7:21pm] elysharom-povolo: but also more efficent than doing all by hand
[7:21pm] ChristianMacy: i think your solution is pretty efficient
[7:21pm] elysharom-povolo: what was it
[7:22pm] JedBrensinger: changing/locker rooms next to bathrooms where you could pick up clean clothes that would be sorted by sizes
[7:22pm] ChristianMacy: Jed?
[7:22pm] ChristianMacy: see? pretty efficient. It'd be hard to beat that.
[7:23pm] JedBrensinger: when dirty you could put them back in hampers where they'de be clean and returned
[7:23pm] JedBrensinger: every day you could pick out whatever you wanted to wear in the locker room
[7:23pm] elysharom-povolo: so everyone would share and get dressed in the locker room?
[7:24pm] JedBrensinger: yeah, pretty much
[7:24pm] ChristianMacy: the changing area could be slightly separate from the "closet"
[7:24pm] JedBrensinger: you could get changed in your room if you want
[7:24pm] JedBrensinger: but that elimates furniture in private rooms
[7:25pm] JedBrensinger: no need for 1,000 closets and dressers
[7:25pm] ChristianMacy: well it also makes clothing management and laundring much more reasonable.
[7:27pm] JedBrensinger: bathrooms/changing rooms could be positioned to make things efficient
[7:28pm] JedBrensinger: it would make sense to have one when entering from working outside
[7:28pm] JedBrensinger: because you can get clothes in any changing room there's no need to go to a specific one
[7:29pm] ChristianMacy: there could be an entrance directly into an ante room adjoining the bathroom/changing rooms
[7:29pm] JedBrensinger: much like the washhouse Frazier describes near the dairy
[7:31pm] ChristianMacy: right - i'd forgotten that.
[7:32pm] AugustineCastle joined the chat room.
[7:33pm] AugustineCastle is now known as SirAugustineCasl.
[7:33pm] JedBrensinger: hi there
[7:33pm] SirAugustineCasl is now known as JessicaB.
[7:33pm] ChristianMacy: lol, nice, Jessica 
[7:33pm] elysharom-povolo: Hi Sir Castle
[7:33pm] JessicaB: Hi!
[7:34pm] JessicaB: Hi Elysha,  I saw the work you have done so far - very nice!
[7:34pm] elysharom-povolo: thx, it is a bit disorganized...
[7:35pm] JessicaB: That's ok, you gotta have something before you can organize it.
[7:35pm] elysharom-povolo: yah
[7:35pm] ChristianMacy: right - disorganization is just proof that you've been busy 
[7:36pm] JedBrensinger: Is everyone here?
[7:36pm] JedBrensinger: Mike & Sean you active?
[7:36pm] elysharom-povolo: is mike m. coming?
[7:36pm] MikeRay: minton
[7:36pm] ChristianMacy: No monkey?
[7:36pm] SeanAbrahams: I am here
[7:36pm] ChristianMacy: heh heh
[7:36pm] JedBrensinger: anyone know about Mike M.
[7:36pm] ChristianMacy: that was good timing, sean
[7:37pm] SeanAbrahams: It was 
[7:37pm] ChristianMacy: Well we can get started and he can join in when he gets here
[7:37pm] ChristianMacy: no biggie 
[7:38pm] JedBrensinger: sounds good, let's get started
[7:38pm] ChristianMacy: OK, so i thought we'd do it like this:
[7:39pm] ChristianMacy: I have a few topics that popped into my mind. I'll talk a very little bit about each, then open it up after each one.
[7:39pm] SeanAbrahams: Cool
[7:39pm] JessicaB: Sounds good
[7:39pm] ChristianMacy: we'll keep discussion on each limited to about 10 minutes or less
[7:39pm] ChristianMacy: then at the end, open it up to you guys to ask me questions or bring up your own topic
[7:40pm] JedBrensinger: good
[7:40pm] ChristianMacy: So topic one is: Sustainability and "Footprint" at W2
[7:41pm] ChristianMacy: Walden two focused a lot on using fruits, veggies, etc, and not any meat products.
[7:41pm] ChristianMacy: The benefits of which are two-fold: An overall healthier diet, as well as an increase in available resources
[7:42pm] ChristianMacy: no meat eating means less "grain fed" cattle
[7:42pm] ChristianMacy: etc etc
[7:42pm] MikeRay: I think lambs were eaten (a joke Frazier makes about lambs and mint)
[7:42pm] JedBrensinger: i was just thinking that
[7:42pm] JessicaB: I'm all on board, being vegetarian myself, but I don't think Walden Two was vegetarian...
[7:43pm] MikeRay: but its definitely not our meat/cattle system as we know it
[7:43pm] ChristianMacy: Hmmm ... it's entirely possible. I can't remember. I just didn't remember any meat references
[7:43pm] ChristianMacy: in either case, it brings up sustainability as well
[7:43pm] MikeRay: Thoreau was a vegetarian
[7:44pm] ChristianMacy: i'm all for going for a zero footprint, but i also think that taking the middle road is key
[7:44pm] ChristianMacy: i tend to think that any extreme will get you into trouble
[7:44pm] MikeRay: by footprint do you mean carbon footprint?
[7:44pm] ChristianMacy: and the problem today isn't that we're harming the earth, but that we're doing it faster than the earth can balance and heal
[7:45pm] ChristianMacy: i mean just a living footprint: waste, co2, water consumption, etc
[7:45pm] MikeRay: ah ok
[7:45pm] ChristianMacy: so with that, any comments?
[7:45pm] MikeRay: sounds good to me
[7:46pm] JedBrensinger: so what do you think would be a good balance?
[7:46pm] SeanAbrahams: I think our sustainability efforts need to be realistic from the perspective of people used to american society today
[7:46pm] ChristianMacy: that's probably a question W2 would have to answer
[7:46pm] ChristianMacy: true
[7:46pm] SeanAbrahams: Meaning, we strive to provide as much of the comforts that people enjoy today as sustainably as possible
[7:47pm] SeanAbrahams: Because if it's too drastic a change, people won't want to live there
[7:47pm] ChristianMacy: right. Like we can re-use gray water, use solar panels, solar heaters
[7:47pm] ChristianMacy: composte (without going crazy)
[7:47pm] SeanAbrahams: Yes, we can take on the same efforts that are already going on
[7:48pm] ChristianMacy: use existing tech to create a balance.
[7:48pm] MikeRay: Sean: are you thinking of any particular comforts that might be lost? big screen teevees?
[7:48pm] SeanAbrahams: My idea is to always reach towards 100% sustainability as an ideal, but I don't realistically think it will be achieved
[7:49pm] ChristianMacy: SeanAbrahams: i think the same way. But when i take a step back, i start to think that really i'm just going to the opposite extreme of our world today. In a society like W2, we could figure out the ideal balance and stay there.
[7:50pm] SeanAbrahams: Thinking...
[7:50pm] SeanAbrahams:                          
[7:50pm] ChristianMacy: running water, waste management
[7:50pm] SeanAbrahams: Yes, those are obvious
[7:50pm] SeanAbrahams: Less obvious may be living quarters
[7:51pm] MikeRay: quality of life
[7:51pm] SeanAbrahams: Do we live in hotels or does everyone have their own homes
[7:51pm] MikeRay: building rammed earth homes for every member wouldn't be all that energy intensive
[7:51pm] JedBrensinger: but at the same time individual homes use more material
[7:51pm] MikeRay: if each home is built from glass and steel then that changes things quite a bit
[7:51pm] ChristianMacy: that's true. ultimately you have about as many walls.
[7:52pm] MikeRay: Jed: material is not a concern per se if the materials are low-impact, I think?
[7:52pm] JessicaB: I think people will miss restaurants unless we have an extremely good and versitile chef right off the bat.
[7:52pm] MikeRay: JessicaB: a good point - people need good food.
[7:52pm] JedBrensinger: Mike: yes, but some things I'm not sure how we can make low'impact
[7:53pm] ChristianMacy: it's true, but it's relative
[7:53pm] SeanAbrahams: Walden Two needs to be obviously better may be my point
[7:53pm] SeanAbrahams: from both a sustainability perspective and quality of life perspective
[7:54pm] ChristianMacy: well let's face it, though, we'd be showing people communal living and a societal focus versus the capitalist "planet me" world we've all grown up in
[7:55pm] SeanAbrahams: And how communal living equals an improved quality of life, as I assume we all here suspect it will
[7:55pm] ChristianMacy: right, but how to get people focused on instant gratification to focus on the big picture?
[7:55pm] MikeRay: if quality of life is defined explicity - amount of time painting, singing, watching TV, etc. then it can be measured
[7:56pm] ChristianMacy: ok, well, let's continue this later if we want to ...
[7:56pm] SeanAbrahams: Certainly, let's move on
[7:56pm] ChristianMacy: Another thing that i think about a lot is the W2 perspective on family life
[7:57pm] ChristianMacy: while i definitely think that having everyone treated equally and with the same respect is a great idea
[7:57pm] ChristianMacy: i don't know about having blood ties be practically ignored
[7:57pm] ChristianMacy: logically it makes sense
[7:58pm] ChristianMacy: but i have a nephew now, and while i don't think he's better than any other kid, i think that having him put with all the others and made "just another kid" would be hard for me
[7:58pm] ChristianMacy: while Frazier says that parents still know their child and spend time with them
[7:58pm] MikeRay: in the novel you'd be able to give him gifts, along with two friends, etc
[7:58pm] ChristianMacy: he specifies that they spend an equal amount of time with the other kids
[7:59pm] ChristianMacy: well right, but the idea is that it's the community's child
[7:59pm] ChristianMacy: or at least that's what i got.
[8:00pm] ChristianMacy: what does everyone think? is that about right? would it work? is it a good idea?
[8:00pm] JedBrensinger: I think we might not be able to actually figure it out until we're in W2
[8:01pm] JedBrensinger: we look out for our own at the very least from an evolutionary standpoint, keeping our genes alive
[8:01pm] MikeRay: I think Frazier would have seen your nephew as a 'community kid' but you would see him as your nephew and play with him, take him places, etc. the community would simply ask that you extend your generosity to other kids as well
[8:01pm] ChristianMacy: doesn't that eventually lead to a mindset where there are no blood ties?
[8:01pm] ChristianMacy: it seemed like that was the ideal endpoint
[8:02pm] elysharom-povolo: As a woman, I think free childcare would be great, but I don't really want my kids raised away from me...
[8:02pm] SeanAbrahams: The idea was to solve the problem of "favoritism" based on blood relation?
[8:03pm] SeanAbrahams: Does anyone here have children?
[8:03pm] ChristianMacy: just my nephew
[8:04pm] ChristianMacy: (and my cat - i love that cat)
[8:04pm] MikeRay: you'd have to show affection for two other cats as well, no blood ties, etc
[8:04pm] SeanAbrahams: I too have a nephew and a niece. I don't imagine I would have any trouble with the Walden Two way with them.
[8:04pm] ChristianMacy: I guess the real question is: Growing up as we have, we have a very specific idea of how blood relations factor into our lives
[8:05pm] SeanAbrahams: However, had I a child of my own, I may not feel the same
[8:05pm] SeanAbrahams: Yes, we'd need to change that cultural value
[8:05pm] ChristianMacy: if we lived in walden two and blood ties were fairly unimportant, would we lead a better life once we were used to *that* as the standard instead?
[8:06pm] MikeRay: families are often split by capitalism
[8:06pm] SeanAbrahams: I understood Skinner's point with this being to prevent corruption and favoritism
[8:06pm] MikeRay: divorce is rampant
[8:06pm] SeanAbrahams: and perhaps promote love and community
[8:06pm] MikeRay: people move away and no longer support their parents and relatives
[8:07pm] ChristianMacy: i think that the basic thing it's changing is to view the community as a family
[8:07pm] ChristianMacy: but by the same token, couldn't we say that that would lead to favoritism between communities?
[8:07pm] ChristianMacy: us vs them?
[8:08pm] JedBrensinger: I think bloodlines would just fall away once in W2, we want our bloodlines to survive so we treat our own relatives better to insure they survive/prosper
[8:08pm] ChristianMacy: i almost feel like having that small family unit helps people to learn how to deal with other families (small communities)
[8:08pm] SeanAbrahams: I would hope that education would largely solve these issues
[8:08pm] JedBrensinger: if everyone is gauranteed to survive and prosper there's no need to favor our own family
[8:08pm] ChristianMacy: but isn't that what really needs to change? not the bloodlines, but our perception of value
[8:09pm] ChristianMacy: well said, Jed
[8:09pm] SeanAbrahams: What's next Christian?
[8:09pm] ChristianMacy: perfect timing
[8:09pm] ChristianMacy: i was just looking it over
[8:10pm] ChristianMacy: ok, so this one is more of an overall observation
[8:10pm] ChristianMacy: just a talking point if you will
[8:10pm] ChristianMacy: I see the current world as an evolution of a society created based on available resources
[8:11pm] ChristianMacy: well, a collection of societies would be better
[8:11pm] ChristianMacy: NEways
[8:11pm] ChristianMacy: an example would be the difference between societies that developed where there was little food or water
[8:11pm] ChristianMacy: these became nomadic conquerors
[8:12pm] ChristianMacy: contrast this with the societies they overtook: ones where food was plentiful and war between societies was needless
[8:12pm] ChristianMacy: you can actually see these differences in different religious traditions
[8:12pm] ChristianMacy: the god versus the goddess is a perfect example
[8:13pm] ChristianMacy: so this is why i love walden two
[8:13pm] ChristianMacy: it's a reimagining of the societies of today
[8:13pm] ChristianMacy: it gives us the chance to ask a very important question
[8:14pm] ChristianMacy: what if the first societies had developed out of a world with the technology to provide for everyone's needs
[8:14pm] ChristianMacy: what would that look like in several millenia?
[8:14pm] ChristianMacy: where would we be now if we'd started there?
[8:15pm] SeanAbrahams: We may still be living in a stone age 
[8:15pm] ChristianMacy: right
[8:15pm] ChristianMacy: i like to think that we can help pave the way for a great world
[8:16pm] ChristianMacy: i guess that's what gets me excited to be here
[8:16pm] ChristianMacy: so that's something i wanted to share
[8:16pm] elysharom-povolo: that is a really nice way of putting it
[8:16pm] elysharom-povolo: thank you
[8:16pm] SeanAbrahams: Certainly, I think we all recognize a good model in Walden Two
[8:16pm] ChristianMacy: tsk tsk - no thanks allowed, remember 
[8:17pm] SeanAbrahams: I would agree that my motivations are similar
[8:18pm] ChristianMacy: i think what's really astounding about the idea of W2 is not that every need is provided for
[8:18pm] SeanAbrahams: To help remedy the bad practices of our culture
[8:18pm] ChristianMacy: but the idea that with every need provided for, the culture can be self-sufficient and provide for it's own needs
[8:19pm] ChristianMacy: like creating cold fusion in a society
[8:19pm] SeanAbrahams: you mean a sort of societal "cold fusion"
[8:19pm] ChristianMacy: Walden-Two: Cold Fusion in Human Form
[8:20pm] SeanAbrahams: I certainly think that's a goal
[8:21pm] ChristianMacy: OK, well, i think that'll do 'er
[8:21pm] ChristianMacy: anyone want to bring up a topic? or ask me anything specific?
[8:21pm] MikeRay: what do you think people will like most about walden two?
[8:22pm] ChristianMacy: That they each can find something about it that they like most.
[8:22pm] ChristianMacy:                          
[8:22pm] ChristianMacy: Honestly, though. I'd say it depends on the community that grows there
[8:23pm] ChristianMacy: it's such an individual question, and as Frazier would say, i really don't think there's a precedent
[8:23pm] ChristianMacy: I know that for me, i'd like to know that we're setting an example
[8:23pm] ChristianMacy: Making a difference instead of talking about doing it. That'll be my nirvana.
[8:24pm] JedBrensinger: I think that would be a good motivation for many people
[8:24pm] SeanAbrahams: A highlight for me would be freedom of occupation (without the threat of poverty) and more time to spend as one chooses
[8:25pm] ChristianMacy: Actually being able to enjoy time after work without feeling like you had to balance fun and chores before you had to go to sleep and get ready for more work
[8:25pm] SeanAbrahams: Actually, most everything is a highlight for me... community, art, sustainability
[8:26pm] ChristianMacy: And it all comes from the abolishment of one thing: greed. Crazy.
[8:27pm] SeanAbrahams: Excellent topics
[8:27pm] ChristianMacy: it's funny - a few months ago (before reading w2) i had a conversation with a coworker about a quote on a starbucks cup
[8:27pm] ChristianMacy: it said something like "you can't change the world by giving a dollar to someone in need"
[8:28pm] ChristianMacy: and i thought "well, yeah you could, if everyone wasn't so greedy and would give anyone who needed it the money, the system would balance"
[8:28pm] ChristianMacy: I'm glad that the topics worked out 
[8:29pm] elysharom-povolo: Thanks Christian
[8:29pm] elysharom-povolo: I enjoyed this a lot, though I didn't say much
[8:29pm] elysharom-povolo: I am out now...
[8:29pm] ChristianMacy: np 
[8:29pm] ChristianMacy: have a good night 
[8:29pm] elysharom-povolo: you too
[8:29pm] MikeRay: thanks!
[8:29pm] elysharom-povolo: all
[8:29pm] MikeRay: bye elysha
[8:30pm] elysharom-povolo left the chat room.
[8:31pm] MikeRay: Christian: are we done?
[8:31pm] ChristianMacy: yep - that was all i had
[8:31pm] MikeRay: excellent, you have given me much to think about
[8:32pm] ChristianMacy: i'm glad! I'm really enjoying the discussion on the boards, btw
[8:32pm] ChristianMacy: the planners question really is an excellent one
[8:32pm] MikeRay: it is perhaps the toughest problem of all I think
[8:32pm] ChristianMacy: i think if we just logic it out and experiment, we'll do fine
[8:33pm] MikeRay: yes, I think there are many good solutions to the same question
[8:33pm] ChristianMacy: btw, do you have a FB account?
[8:33pm] ChristianMacy: or you, Jessica?
[8:35pm] SeanAbrahams: Does anyone want to talk about the projects they were assigned last week?
[8:36pm] ChristianMacy: i haven't gotten into mine yet beyond some surface thinking
[8:36pm] MikeRay: what is an FB account?
[8:36pm] SeanAbrahams: I have some notes on Non-Profit stuff
[8:36pm] ChristianMacy: Face Book 
[8:36pm] MikeRay: I don't think so
[8:36pm] ChristianMacy: I was thinking that we'll also need to try to figure out some tax law info
[8:37pm] ChristianMacy: (tis the season, after all)
[8:37pm] MikeRay: we might be able to find retired professionals to help us with that kind of stuff
[8:37pm] MikeRay: I was looking at the SBA website and they had a mentor program with retired business people for the newbies
[8:38pm] ChristianMacy: They do that for NPs too?
[8:38pm] SeanAbrahams: JedBrensinger: I didn't know you joined the Walden Two Facebook Group, nice... I just friend requested you
[8:38pm] MikeRay: a non-profit is just a kind of business, I don't think they'll hold the lack of stock holders against us... I hope
[8:38pm] SeanAbrahams: Christian: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2352223809
[8:39pm] JedBrensinger: Sean: i didn't know about it for the longest time
[8:39pm] JedBrensinger: which is strange because i looked before and found no groups, no there's a couple
[8:39pm] SeanAbrahams: Well, not surprising since I never mention it
[8:39pm] MikeRay: maybe we should throw up info about facebook etc on the webpage
[8:40pm] MikeRay: there is a huge intentional community group on tribe.net
[8:40pm] ChristianMacy: probably - Sean also has a business site set up for w2
[8:40pm] ChristianMacy: i actually ended up reading Paxus' article just before the meeting, speakin of other ICs
[8:41pm] SeanAbrahams:        http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=7516288698    
[8:41pm] ChristianMacy: MikeRay: I'd imagine you're right about the SBA, i was just not sure if the rules were different
[8:41pm] MikeRay: well no what I mean is that there are retirees, not through the SBA, that's just where I got the idae
[8:42pm] MikeRay: there are retired psychologists, architects, public relations, economics, doctors, etc people who are looking for a good project
[8:42pm] ChristianMacy: oh man
[8:42pm] ChristianMacy: that would be a GREAT resours
[8:42pm] JessicaB: Sorry I was away for several minutes.  I don't have a FB account.
[8:42pm] ChristianMacy: (resource)
[8:44pm] ChristianMacy: hey, what would you guys think about having just a regular chat session once more per week?
[8:44pm] MikeRay: at a different time or day?
[8:44pm] ChristianMacy: speaker and discussion on monday, regular chat about whatever on a different day
[8:45pm] MikeRay: we could try for Sunday Meetings
[8:45pm] MikeRay: like in the novel
[8:45pm] MikeRay: I think Sean/Elysha were talking about that
[8:45pm] ChristianMacy: oh?
[8:45pm] SeanAbrahams: Yes
[8:45pm] SeanAbrahams: I would prefer Sunday meetings personally
[8:46pm] ChristianMacy: it'd probably work better for me, too
[8:46pm] ChristianMacy: work is a bit like the devil
[8:46pm] ChristianMacy: no no. work IS the devil.
[8:46pm] ChristianMacy: bad work!
[8:46pm] MikeRay: work is the means to salvation
[8:46pm] MikeRay: only it has to be the right work for the right causes 
[8:46pm] SeanAbrahams: Sundays at 11:00AM PST?
[8:47pm] JessicaB: Sunday could be ok for me.
[8:47pm] JessicaB: Midday would make it hard to plan outings though.
[8:47pm] ChristianMacy: I'd probably be down with that, but i'm with JB
[8:47pm] MikeRay: is 11 mid-day?
[8:47pm] ChristianMacy: nights are when i'd be at home anyways
[8:47pm] JessicaB: yes, for me it is.
[8:47pm] JessicaB: me too
[8:48pm] ChristianMacy: what about 6 pst?
[8:48pm] JessicaB: That would be easier.
[8:48pm] MikeRay: You might be able to get Roger McConnel on Sundays
[8:48pm] MikeRay: he can't do Mondays
[8:48pm] SeanAbrahams: J too
[8:49pm] SeanAbrahams: Sundays at 6PM would be better, yes
[8:49pm] ChristianMacy: And then we could have a general discussion on Wednesdays or something
[8:49pm] MikeRay: three meetings?
[8:49pm] JedBrensinger: i think he meant move monday
[8:50pm] JessicaB: I wouldn't have time to come to alot.  Maybe I'll pick one and drop in on the other if I have time.
[8:50pm] MikeRay: Moving times and dates are usually a bad idea
[8:50pm] ChristianMacy: oh, no - i thought we were talking about making it sunday instead of monday, so i was suggesting the second be on wed or thurs
[8:50pm] MikeRay: I thought you said not drop Monday
[8:50pm] ChristianMacy: well why don't we try Sunday and leave Monday
[8:50pm] ChristianMacy: we can always shift later
[8:51pm] MikeRay: I think I will have to say that I want to stick to Mondays alone
[8:51pm] MikeRay: we need consistency
[8:51pm] MikeRay: I don't favor shifting Monday
[8:52pm] MikeRay: you can add extra meetings if you like, Sunday, etc.
[8:52pm] JessicaB: Monday does seem to work well enough for the majority of us.
[8:52pm] ChristianMacy: I agree - let's leave Monday.
[8:53pm] ChristianMacy: We can add in a general chat on Sun at 1800pst for anyone who wants to and/or can't make mondays
[8:53pm] ChristianMacy: how does that sound?
[8:53pm] JessicaB: sounds good to me.
[8:53pm] JedBrensinger: sounds good
[8:53pm] SeanAbrahams: Cool
[8:54pm] JedBrensinger: are we going to announce it as another meeting?
[8:54pm] SeanAbrahams: ChristianMacy: Can you post a message to the google group announcing the Sunday meetings please?
[8:54pm] SeanAbrahams: haha
[8:54pm] MikeRay: if the sunday meetings work out maybe we can talk about shifting later
[8:54pm] ChristianMacy: sounds like a plan
[8:54pm] JessicaB: Topics are still on Monday's for now, right?
[8:54pm] MikeRay: we have non-members committed to Mondays already and it will be hard to schedule them if we shift
[8:55pm] JedBrensinger: topics will still be mondays
[8:55pm] ChristianMacy: well if we ever do decide to shift, we can schedule the change for after commited speakers
[8:55pm] MikeRay: Paxus, David, and possible Deborah Altus (Mark Mattaini in ther fall)
[8:55pm] SeanAbrahams: Who is David?
[8:55pm] SeanAbrahams: I noticed it in your email but do not recognize the name
[8:56pm] MikeRay: David wrote a totally cool dissertation on Walden Two in 1979. It is unpublished.
[8:56pm] JessicaB: And who is Deborah Altus?
[8:56pm] MikeRay: I just read it. Its quite good.
[8:56pm] MikeRay: Deborah wrote an article "Where are the walden two communities now?" in 1999 I think
[8:56pm] MikeRay: both are professors now I think
[8:57pm] JessicaB: Great!  I'm looking forward to those nights!
[8:57pm] MikeRay: excellent
[8:58pm] JessicaB: I'm heading out.  Thanks for a great topic Christian!
[8:58pm] JessicaB left the chat room. ("Give me the Square Deal Pants Store and the Hamburgteria instead!")
[8:59pm] JedBrensinger: and then there were 4
[9:00pm] SeanAbrahams: Regarding non-profit
[9:00pm] MikeRay: new quit message
[9:00pm] SeanAbrahams: Some basics are that we need a board of directors and officers
[9:01pm] SeanAbrahams: Boards can range in size but the book I'm reading recommends between 9 to 15 people
[9:01pm] SeanAbrahams: which is large for us
[9:01pm] MikeRay: directors are fundraisers, right?
[9:01pm] SeanAbrahams: Here are my notes
[9:01pm] SeanAbrahams: Directors are a crucial link between our organization and its supporters and benefactors. Make sure that the members of the community that you plan to serve will see your directors as credible and competent representatives of your group and its nonprofit goals. Their status and integrity will be crucial to encouraging and protecting public trust in our organization, and their connections will be vital to attracting recognition, clients, donations, and other support.
[9:01pm] SeanAbrahams: - Include people from the community we seek to establish a Walden Two in
[9:01pm] SeanAbrahams: - Public Officials are a good choice
[9:01pm] SeanAbrahams: - People with contacts and experience in what we're doing
[9:01pm] SeanAbrahams: - People of groups that benefit from our work
[9:01pm] SeanAbrahams: - People committed to our purpose
[9:01pm] SeanAbrahams: - People with fundraising experience
[9:01pm] SeanAbrahams: - People with experience managing money
[9:01pm] SeanAbrahams: - People with useful/practical skills (lawyer, doctor, architect)
[9:02pm] SeanAbrahams: Directors can also be a governing body
[9:04pm] ChristianMacy: hmm ...
[9:04pm] ChristianMacy: this seems like it would be hard to reconcile with w2
[9:05pm] MikeRay: I think it could be a seperate body
[9:05pm] SeanAbrahams: Yes, it would be separate
[9:05pm] ChristianMacy: but then it might be hard to keep the groups interests represented
[9:05pm] MikeRay: When we spoke to Dave at CalABA he was like 'No one wants to give up the comforts of capitalism'
[9:05pm] SeanAbrahams: Besides a board there would be the officers, which include the President, Secretary, and Treasurer
[9:05pm] MikeRay: I think that might be a common sentiment for working professionals
[9:06pm] SeanAbrahams: Well, for now, the Non-Profit is mostly about fundraising
[9:06pm] MikeRay: what do you see this nonprofit doing?
[9:06pm] ChristianMacy: i hate to say it guys, but i gotta go. I think this would be a good topic for discussion ... let's wait until next week when you've had a chance to get some more info
[9:06pm] SeanAbrahams: Ok
[9:06pm] ChristianMacy: well, i mean wait to post it to the discussion board
[9:06pm] SeanAbrahams: Cheers Christian
[9:07pm] ChristianMacy: you can keep talking 
[9:07pm] MikeRay: laters! thanks for the talk
[9:07pm] ChristianMacy: wow - i'm just not with the speaking of the words today
[9:07pm] ChristianMacy: thanks to you guys!
[9:07pm] JedBrensinger: thanks, bye
[9:07pm] MikeRay: yeah I should sign off as well. this would be a good topic for waldentwo-talk
[9:07pm] ChristianMacy: latas 
[9:07pm] MikeRay: night all
[9:07pm] ChristianMacy left the chat room. ("Give me the Square Deal Pants Store and the Hamburgteria instead!")
[9:07pm] MikeRay left the chat room. ("Leaving")
[9:08pm] SeanAbrahams: Cheers Jed
[9:08pm] SeanAbrahams: I'm out too
[9:08pm] JedBrensinger: bye
[9:08pm] SeanAbrahams: See you Sunday
[9:09pm] JedBrensinger: yep